Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think the media should report people’s actual sex—not preferred gender—in legal cases, courts, and crime reporting?

132 replies

SernieBanders · 18/02/2025 14:59

A large portion of the country does not know what "transgender woman" means, (is it someone male being female or female being male?) And using incorrect pronouns from reality makes this worse.

Not to mention it clouds the reality of important cases such as Dr Beth Upton and Nurse Sandie Peggie - at a glance it could be easy for a casual reader to not know why Sandie was so upset, surely it's just another woman in the female changing rooms?

Language matters. Always. Twisting it and using it incorrectly leads to all sorts of misunderstandings, like "Her Penis" or "His Ovaries"

Has there been an uptick in the legally impossible act of women raping people? No. But according to the media, seemingly yes.

Organisations do this because IPSO (Independent Press Standards Organisation), forces them to do so, see this description from the Spectator, who had their hand forced https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-ipso-surrendered-to-the-trans-lobby/?homepage-tracking=high_density-article-1

For example this, awful story, is a male, raping and sexually abusing children under 13.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14392643/Transgender-woman-court-rape-girl-sexually-assault-boy.html

This should stop - it's not a matter of "outing" people, as the media often says "transgender woman", but it is a matter of being fair and clear to both sexes

The Scottish Express - has tried to stop doing so - and they have been reported to the police:
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/comment/scottish-express-referring-dr-beth-34670335

OP posts:
JellySaurus · 18/02/2025 23:33

At school we came up with an (unofficial) aide memoire: the XY has a little dangly bit, just like men do.

UrsulaLongshanksTheFlamingo · 19/02/2025 00:30

Catza · 18/02/2025 15:40

Can you clarify "legally impossible act of women raping people'?

In UK law at least -don't know what other countries have as a definition- rape is officially any penetration of the vagina, anus or mouth by a penis, therefore a woman can only be guilty as an accomplice.

UrsulaLongshanksTheFlamingo · 19/02/2025 00:41

Errors · 18/02/2025 15:36

I agree and I would also like to know if this affects crime stats? Does a trans woman committing a crime get recorded as a female?

Yes it does affect the stats. The police are now obliged to register someone's sex as whatever they "identify as". This is how we've ended up with males "identifying as women" in women's prisons.
I recommend the book "The Women Who Wouldn't Wheesht" by Susan Dalgety and Lucy Hunter Blackburn, about the women who campaigned against Nicola Sturgeon's "self identify" law- in which all one needs to do to change "gender" is to say you do, and get a Gender Recognition Certificate, and off you go.
The book gives a examples of how crime stats have been skewed.

UrsulaLongshanksTheFlamingo · 19/02/2025 00:52

BMW6 · 18/02/2025 15:58

Do Transmen usually get some sort of penis created for their body - I mean a flesh and blood one, not a strap-on dildo.

If a transman has such a "created" penis could she commit Rape?

I agree that crimes should be recorded as committed by sex not gender, so perhaps a female could commit rape in these circumstances and it should be recorded as a such, so a woman could Rape.

Do you agree?

Most don't go through "gender reassignment surgery", or "GRN", but a pseudo penis can be put together with skin from elsewhere- usually the thigh. They can use a pump to make it erect.
I know a fair bit of the gory details because I've read so many books on the trans "craze". My brother was caught up in it over 20 yrs ago and went through full GRN. Regrets it now.

Material Girls by Kathleen Stock, is a very good one.

SernieBanders · 19/02/2025 07:05

UrsulaLongshanksTheFlamingo · 19/02/2025 00:41

Yes it does affect the stats. The police are now obliged to register someone's sex as whatever they "identify as". This is how we've ended up with males "identifying as women" in women's prisons.
I recommend the book "The Women Who Wouldn't Wheesht" by Susan Dalgety and Lucy Hunter Blackburn, about the women who campaigned against Nicola Sturgeon's "self identify" law- in which all one needs to do to change "gender" is to say you do, and get a Gender Recognition Certificate, and off you go.
The book gives a examples of how crime stats have been skewed.

Edited

What’s the worst effect of these numbers no longer being trustworthy I wonder?

OP posts:
Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 19/02/2025 08:11

scorpiogirly · 18/02/2025 18:30

Should be.. "Bob Jones, a 57 year old man from Wigan who now refers to himself as Barbara Jones..."

No more nonsense.

Yes, this. The words transwoman and transman are confusing to most people, especially when people separate ‘trans’ from ‘woman’ or ‘man’ as if it’s an adjective like tall or French instead of meaning ‘actually the opposite sex’.

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 19/02/2025 08:15

To make it clear, I always use ‘trans-identifying man’ for a male person who says he’s a woman, and ‘trans-identifying woman’ for a female person who says she’s a man.

TheKeatingFive · 19/02/2025 08:18

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 19/02/2025 08:15

To make it clear, I always use ‘trans-identifying man’ for a male person who says he’s a woman, and ‘trans-identifying woman’ for a female person who says she’s a man.

Me too. Much clearer.

AlisonDonut · 19/02/2025 08:19

It is even worse than reporting someone's starsign [for all the relevance that has] as this gives vile men who hate women a reason to scream about how vile women are. When the people they are screaming about are men.

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 19/02/2025 08:21

SernieBanders · 19/02/2025 07:05

What’s the worst effect of these numbers no longer being trustworthy I wonder?

Safeguarding laws and practices being weakened because the (incorrect) stats no longer show that men are by far the main problem.

JellySaurus · 19/02/2025 08:27

UrsulaLongshanksTheFlamingo · 19/02/2025 00:41

Yes it does affect the stats. The police are now obliged to register someone's sex as whatever they "identify as". This is how we've ended up with males "identifying as women" in women's prisons.
I recommend the book "The Women Who Wouldn't Wheesht" by Susan Dalgety and Lucy Hunter Blackburn, about the women who campaigned against Nicola Sturgeon's "self identify" law- in which all one needs to do to change "gender" is to say you do, and get a Gender Recognition Certificate, and off you go.
The book gives a examples of how crime stats have been skewed.

Edited

Are the police actually obliged to register perpetrators by gender self-ID rather than material sex? Is there any legal requirement to do so? Or are they following guidelines drawn up by a body that has been guided by trans ideologist in its interpretation of the law ?

jeaux90 · 19/02/2025 08:37

Well they should but the governing body is captured so whilst some
Media outlets are rebelling we have policy to unpick.

Same goes for Judiciary.

I mean it's better than it was a couple of years ago but totally agree OP.

Lawfare was the only way we were going to get this resolved as all the cases over the last few years have shown.

Lookuptotheskies · 19/02/2025 08:45

It's ridiculous we're even having to debate this.

Of course real biological sex should be reported. Real biological sex should be recorded as crime stats too. 😡

Runnersandtoms · 19/02/2025 08:48

Catza · 18/02/2025 15:53

I am surprised by that. I would have thought any penetration would be classed as rape. I am extremely uncomfortable with this legal definition.... Live and learn!

There are other sexual assault charges such as assault by penetration (for example when a finger or item is used) but yes rape can only be done by a person with a penis, ie a man.

Runnersandtoms · 19/02/2025 08:51

MissyB1 · 18/02/2025 15:46

Yes they should report what the person identifies as now but also their real biological sex. So something like
"Michelle Smith who identies as female, but was born male, and was formally known as Michael Smith".

In fairness to the Mail (who I would never normally support) that is almost exactly what they say in this article.

TheKeatingFive · 19/02/2025 08:59

Lookuptotheskies · 19/02/2025 08:45

It's ridiculous we're even having to debate this.

Of course real biological sex should be reported. Real biological sex should be recorded as crime stats too. 😡

Multiple people have tried to explain but I still don't get this.

How did so many people think it was a good idea to replace actual, real, verifiable, objective biological sex ...

With some undefinable notion going on in people's heads.

I'm not sure I'll ever understand that. How did people not see it for the pure nonsense that it is?

Genevieva · 19/02/2025 09:00

And legal name.

The police should too and the courts should only use legal names. These are formal settings.

frazzled1 · 19/02/2025 09:01

Agree with PPs, biological sex should alway be reported along with any special identity, if applicable. Same for crime stats.

The vast majority of crime is perpetrated by men, even a few male crimes reported/recorded as female has a disproportionate effect.

https://www.nao.org.uk/reports/improving-outcomes-for-women-in-the-criminal-justice-system/
Women are a minority in the CJS and accounted for just 4% of the prison population as at September 2021.

Helleofabore · 19/02/2025 09:32

TheKeatingFive · 19/02/2025 08:59

Multiple people have tried to explain but I still don't get this.

How did so many people think it was a good idea to replace actual, real, verifiable, objective biological sex ...

With some undefinable notion going on in people's heads.

I'm not sure I'll ever understand that. How did people not see it for the pure nonsense that it is?

But you know Keating.

Postmodernism allows that someone’s described reality is materially real to them, therefore who in these organisations are allowed to tell others what their reality is.

Anyone who uses preferred language is supporting the concept that postmodernist belief that a person can change sex. whether they intend to or not, that is the outcome. They are supporting that a postmodernist belief is materially real.

The act of using a person’s demanded language is not a harmless act and nor is it respectful.

heathspeedwell · 19/02/2025 09:47

I think the media should refer to transwomen as 'men who identify as transwomen'. Then it's clear that they are men, not a subset of women.

We now have many years of evidence to show that men who identify as women simply don't act like us, as a class.

The New York Times last week revealed that 15% of the 'women' in Federal prison in the US are transwomen. Given that men who identify as us are around 0.5% of women, that suggests that they are 60 times more likely to be in federal prison than actual women.

And here in the UK, over 70% of the transwomen in prison have committed sex crimes or violent crime.

From the Telegraph:
"More than 70 per cent of transgender prisoners in British jails are serving sentences for sex offences and violent crimes, government figures have revealed.
At least 181 of the 244 transgender inmates, more than 74 per cent, are in jail for crimes including rape, forcing under-age children into having sex, grievous bodily harm and robbery.
Up to 144 transgender women, men who identify as females, are housed in male prisons while five are currently imprisoned in female jails - including at least one top-security institution where murderers and terrorists are being detained."

The press has a duty to report this accurately because women need to know the difference between the way women and transwomen act if we are to make informed decisions about who should be allowed into women's spaces.

SernieBanders · 19/02/2025 09:48

Helleofabore · 19/02/2025 09:32

But you know Keating.

Postmodernism allows that someone’s described reality is materially real to them, therefore who in these organisations are allowed to tell others what their reality is.

Anyone who uses preferred language is supporting the concept that postmodernist belief that a person can change sex. whether they intend to or not, that is the outcome. They are supporting that a postmodernist belief is materially real.

The act of using a person’s demanded language is not a harmless act and nor is it respectful.

Ah this very much reminds me of an anger inducing trans identified man I saw on YouTube the other day, Gnosticism and all that https://youtube.com/shorts/L9pZv5DoT7I?si=WMIdwojCfshznejS

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 19/02/2025 09:52

Helleofabore · 19/02/2025 09:32

But you know Keating.

Postmodernism allows that someone’s described reality is materially real to them, therefore who in these organisations are allowed to tell others what their reality is.

Anyone who uses preferred language is supporting the concept that postmodernist belief that a person can change sex. whether they intend to or not, that is the outcome. They are supporting that a postmodernist belief is materially real.

The act of using a person’s demanded language is not a harmless act and nor is it respectful.

For sure. And I totally get how the academic classes got behind all this.

But so many relatively ordinary people, without these pretensions to grandeur? Still can't compute it. Were they just asleep at the wheel?

Helleofabore · 19/02/2025 09:54

TheKeatingFive · 19/02/2025 09:52

For sure. And I totally get how the academic classes got behind all this.

But so many relatively ordinary people, without these pretensions to grandeur? Still can't compute it. Were they just asleep at the wheel?

Well, they are programmed to be kind, Keating!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/02/2025 11:38

YANBU.

SernieBanders · 19/02/2025 12:07

Maybe we should all ask IPSO to change their stance and tell them why?

https://www.ipso.co.uk/home/contact/

[email protected]

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread