AIBU to think the media should report people’s actual sex—not preferred gender—in legal cases, courts, and crime reporting?

[SernieBanders]

A large portion of the country does not know what "transgender woman" means, (is it someone male being female or female being male?) And using incorrect pronouns from reality makes this worse.

Not to mention it clouds the reality of important cases such as Dr Beth Upton and Nurse Sandie Peggie - at a glance it could be easy for a casual reader to not know why Sandie was so upset, surely it's just another woman in the female changing rooms?

Language matters. Always. Twisting it and using it incorrectly leads to all sorts of misunderstandings, like "Her Penis" or "His Ovaries"

Has there been an uptick in the legally impossible act of women raping people? No. But according to the media, seemingly yes.

Organisations do this because IPSO (Independent Press Standards Organisation), forces them to do so, see this description from the Spectator, who had their hand forced https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-ipso-surrendered-to-the-trans-lobby/?homepage-tracking=high_density-article-1

For example this, awful story, is a male, raping and sexually abusing children under 13.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14392643/Transgender-woman-court-rape-girl-sexually-assault-boy.html

This should stop - it's not a matter of "outing" people, as the media often says "transgender woman", but it is a matter of being fair and clear to both sexes

The Scottish Express - has tried to stop doing so - and they have been reported to the police:
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/comment/scottish-express-referring-dr-beth-34670335

Good idea, @SernieBanders - I have emailed them.

Going to include a link to these stats :)

No, because 'men who identify as transwomen' implies that TW are a subset of women. It implies also that being a TW is as concrete as being a man. It is not. Being a TW is s as concrete as being a Christian or a Lib Dem, ie is abstract.

No, I think the media should refer to transwomen as 'men who identify as women'. Then it's clear that they are men, not a subset of women.

of course YANBU it is absolutely relevant that they are men

I think they should be reported as men who self identify as woman

few others would identify them as women majority would not see them as a man in women's clothing wearing make up

For anyone who wants to read through the statistics for males who have transgender identities who commit sex crimes in the UK here are some.

This was a question answered this month:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2024-12-16/20298.

Question from Rebecca Paul (MP Reigate): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, with reference to the HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2023-2024, published on 28 November 2024, how many of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female were convicted of a sexual offence.

Answer from Sir Richard Dakin (MP Scunthorpe): 23 December 2024
Of the 245 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as male (i.e. those who now identify as women, non-binary or gender-fluid) on 31 March 2024, 151 were convicted of a sexual offence. This includes both contact and non-contact sexual offences. Offence data was not available for 1 individual.

Of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female on 31 March 2024, the number convicted of a sexual offence is five or fewer. We do not provide exact data for such small sample sizes as it risks identification of individuals. This approach is in line with our standards on data disclosure.

To put this into perspective with what we already knew from FOI information. I posted the information to a regular poster from FWR on another thread, who did not acknowledge the information at all, so it seems sticking the info here is appropriate:

Here is data from the MoJ

Here is an FOI request from 30 April 2024

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/populationoftransgenderoffend/response/2641337/attach/html/7/FOI%20240322022%20Annex%20A.xlsx.html

Up to the 31st March 2023, the MoJ stated that of the 88 male transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was

48 rapes,
0 attempted rapes,
10 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
13 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
0 indecent assault or gross indecency
6 sexual activity with a child under 16
0 other
77 listed here.... BUT there is a total of 88 in the total so there is 11 crimes not noted.

Possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child has not been recorded in this FOI.

However, there is are further discrepancies in the data of the following when you look at TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE.

1 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity
3 rapes
2 sexual activity with a child under 16
3 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,

This equals 9 additional... however the sum for TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE is 99.

Therefore 2 more sex crimes have been hidden from this data.

There were 203 males who were declared as transgender in the prison at the time.

There were 24 NB who were not segregated into male and female. What is key here, is that THIS IS NON-GRC HOLDERS. And we all know that males holding GRCs have increased and they are excluded from this data. NO female people with transgender identities were sentenced to a principal sexual offence. There were 41 female people with transgender identities in UK prisons at that time.
As a comparison, I have stats that say as of April 2019 that the general male MoJ data for male sex offenders was just 16.8% of the male prison population. And there were 3.3% of female people in UK prisons were sex offenders.
I will leave you to do your own sums. But... even using the figure of 88/203 is 43.3%. (And that doesn't include making or possessing indecent photographs of a child remember.)

By the way this exercise was done in 2021. And I checked this data myself from the data source and it was correct at the time. So, it will give some back ground to the above.

The ones that say that in the March/April 2021 data collection period, the MoJ stated that of the 97 transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
40 rapes,
8 attempted rapes,
31 possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child,
32 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
20 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
10 indecent assault or gross indecency
9 sexual activity with a child under 16
27 other

The 97 sex offender transgender prisons collected 177 sentences between them.

And that according to that FOI 197 prisoners are transgender.

Very true all round

And don't forget that those figures suggest only one crime per prisoner which is unlikely. So the reality is that there's more we don't know.

Thank you for this excellent breakdown.

Not to mention the crimes not prosecuted. I assume that all of these crimes have the same or worse rates than rape
Which is what, 5%?

You are right. There is that aspect of what is not recorded or prosecuted as well.

There are two questions that never get answered despite me asking again and again.

The first is, what exactly is the difference between a male who has had their penis and testicles removed due to injury or disease and a male person who elects to have them removed for their identity?

Not that this should ever be an expectation for a male person to be able to fulfill a brutal requirement to get access to female single sex spaces.

The second is, where is the evidence that a group of male people at any stage of transition has statistically the same risk of committing sex related crime as a female person or lower risk? The reason for asking this is because to get access to single sex spaces for female people, it would be an expectation that the group in question would have the same or less risk than female people.

No one answers these questions. They deflect and obfuscate.

There is another question as well.

How many female people of any age are acceptable to be harmed before sex is again prioritised above gender identity ?

Because the current numbers must already be large when you consider the women forced to have these male people in prison, rape crisis support groups or any support group, changing rooms, sports and on and on and on. Just the sports aspect, for medals and podium places that have been reported someone calculated over 800 female people have lost medals and podium laces as a conservative count.

My answer to that was zero of course. Zero women and girls harmed. We are obviously well passed that.

The reason for asking this is because to get access to single sex spaces for female people, it would be an expectation that the group in question would have the same or less risk than female people.

You'd have thought this should have been a consideration but I don't think it was at all. Iirc the 'safety assessments' were entirely about the safety of the male, not the women.

The first is, what exactly is the difference between a male who has had their penis and testicles removed due to injury or disease and a male person who elects to have them removed for their identity?

What exactly is the difference between then and intact men?

The only difference is that they cannot commit rape. They retain all other male and masculine attributes, both innate and learned. Including misogyny and capacity for violence and sexual assault.

I think you are 100% right, @ErrolTheDragon - the people pushing this agenda don't give a damn about the safety, rights or dignity of actual women and girls - at best, we are props for their validation, and at worst, human shields (to the extent that they consider us somewhat human).

oh, I know this, and you know this and many of the MN regulars know this.

But we do keep getting, as you say, what about the safety of this special sub group of male people? And the answer should have always have been, women and girls are not the human safety shields or the comfort humans for male people who feel unsafe.

The exact same argument, a fucking weak argument at that, of 'why should we segregate by sex when any male person who wants to rape can just walk right in' means that those male people who entered the female single sex spaces for 'protection' are not safe either! So why should they come in at all?

It is bonkers and twisted logic and fuckwittery, and I am very glad that we are seeing less and less of these arguments. Because they never were a valid argument at all.

The exact same argument, a fucking weak argument at that, of 'why should we segregate by sex when any male person who wants to rape can just walk right in' means that those male people who entered the female single sex spaces for 'protection' are not safe either! So why should they come in at all?

The reason I hate that weak argument myself is that no, rapists won’t just ‘walk in to a female space’ and rape. It’s all about opportunity for these people. That’s why 90% of sexual abuse or rape is perpetrated by someone the victims knows - because they have easy access to them. If it starts becoming the norm for males to enter women’s spaces, they can hide in plain sight.

If someone was to send their daughter in to the women’s toilets for example, let’s say she is 12 - old enough to go in on her own, and you were to see a man walking in after her you’d want to go straight in and check she is ok because it would seem strange to you. If it becomes a regular occurrence for men to enter women’s spaces - it becomes a normal thing for people and therefore it wouldn’t seem as strange.

The sex should be reported where relevant to the crime, their gender identity should be reported if relevant to their crime but other no, their name will suffice. Whether it's a natal male, trans woman, natal female or non binary is irrelevant for a large percentage of crimes

But it’s lying?

We still need to know accurate statistics in terms of which sex commits crimes, and of what kind.

Also accurate statistics in terms of sentencing - is one sex treated more harshly/leniently than the other.

Similarly trans identity. Are trans identified people convicted of more or fewer crimes in relation to the overall population. Ditto the kinds if crime.

And are trans identified people treated more harshly/leniently than the rest of the population.

Well that's not true is it?

You often get more crimes come out when people see court proceedings though. It's one of the reasons court reporting will sometimes say "John Smith also known as John Doe." Courts should be about clarity and showing ALL of the truth, not just some.

What do people have against recording accurate information? 🫠

Keeping accurate statistics helps us understand patterns in crime, who's at risk, trouble spots, build profiles.

Honestly, it's like scientific progress and the enlightenment never happened for some people.

Agreed. The public (Ireland) was warned that a 'violent teenage girl' would be at large. This in fact was 'Barbie Kardashian', a deranged male so dangerous his own mother was under protection. The truth came out via a leak, with proper mugshots, reminiscent of the Joker. Reporting should be factual and informative, not a farce.

That case was a little complex as his past under 18 history is covered under the Childrens Act (his name cant be published)
And the public were never "warned" the police leaked the BOTLO after he was found to be legally sane by the High Court
so the Child Safety Agency wrote takedown letters to all the media outlets.
And he was then arrested on assault / threat to kill.

I have never seen anyone looking less like a teenage girl than the pictures I have seen of Barbie Kardashian. At least, no one that's actually human.

Zizians: What we know about the vegan 'cult' linked to six deaths https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy83958r2d0o

The insistence of using pronouns makes this article impenetrable. This Zizian gang seems to be male people being reported with female pronouns. While female people can no doubt be violent, these attacks are horrendous and people shouldn’t be led to believe that female people are the perpetrators.

I mean, one of the victims was stabbed 50 times!

A few years ago articles appeared about a criminal on the run, described IIRC as a woman presenting as a man. It was, in fact, a male with a trans identity. I do not remember whether he was legally 'a woman', but because he was trans the police reported as though he was female - even though he was a man on the run in men's clothing. Being told to look out for and keep away from a violent woman in men's clothing does not protect you from a violent man.

Language matters.

Honesty matters.

Truth matters.

Reality matters.
Safeguarding matters.

Women and girls matter.