To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

@BusMumsHoliday @PermanentTemporary I get what you are saying but still very confused. Putin is going to invade/do what he wants with or without talks surely?

why do the talks make the outcome worse?

'Nerr-nerr'?

Seriously?

Zelensky has done extraordinary things with, effectively, nothing except publicity. He has now stated that these aren't legitimate talks from Ukraines point of view. Therefore everyone - particularly public opinion - should be envisaging one of the long drawn out guerilla wars that occur when 'big players' try to impose solutions externally on smaller countries. Those guerilla wars are an expensive nightmare for the big players and usually end up with some form of embarrassing loss. That's a perfectly legitimate chess move by Z.

'I get what you are saying but still very confused'

In the words of PG Wodehouse, 'one or the other. Not both'.

Zelensky has done extraordinary things with, effectively, nothing except publicity

I wouldn't quite say "nothing", @PermanentTemporary; as a PP mentioned Ukraine wouldn't still be fighting at all if it wasn't for American money

And while it's true that "nerr-nerr" might not have been exactly how it was put, the attitude's still there. As said Zelensky will rightly have to be involved if anything comes of this, but there's simply no point in hoping Russia will regard him as someone to take much notice of, and as ever it'll take bigger players to sort this out

Though Russia significantly underestimated ukraine and zelenskys determination.
I wonder what the outcone would be if europe decided to continue to support ukraine, which would also undermine these talks
I cannot get understand the arrogance of not including ukraine.

It looks like Keir is ready to put British boots on the ground in Ukraine without American backup. Good luck with that.

How did Z get the money and support of the EU, America, Britain, Japan and others? Through publicity.

Zelensky is the illegitimate leader of Ukraine because he has refused to hold elections.

How do you know this? I'm a Russian-speaking Ukrainian from Eastern Ukraine, have spoken Russian all my life, and so have my family. Literally never had any issues with that until Russia decided to invade Donbass in 2014. My parents had to leave their home and start from scratch in a new place in their late 60s, just like thousands of the so called "minorities", whose homes were destroyed by Putin. (For the record, I work full-time and pay quite a bit of tax and so do lots of other Ukrainians here in the UK, so we're not exactly living here "off people's generosity, though we do appreciate the ongiing support the UK has given Ukraine over the past three years).

A very Eurocentric view. Putin poses no threat to the US. He can't even project enough power into Ukraine to win.

Why do you think there are no elections @LifeExperience

Other than the logistics of organising it, do you think they should go against their own constitution.

Silly sausage

Though no expert in these matters I believe it's a bit more complicated than that with the country under martial law, but you're not wrong that elections have been refused - which is unfortunate if there's any chance of one resulting in a more stable leader with perhaps more experience

It looks like Keir is ready to put British boots on the ground in Ukraine without American backup. Good luck with that

Edited to add good luck indeed, @LifeExperience, especially as Trump holds the card of withdrawing from NATO altogether and leaving others to fund their own defence

Elections have not been held because Ukraine is under attack. Do you want Gaza to have held elections when Israel was bombing?

No force--just a deal. Greenlanders would get all the benefits of US citizenship with no taxes. Same deal Puerto Rico, Guam, Samoa and a few other US territories get.

Trump is building an iron dome defense system over the US and, because of geography he needs either Greenland or certain parts of Canada to do it.

Yes. And also not allowed under their constitution

Zelensky is a legitimate president, not sure why posters think he isn't.

It is Russian propaganda.
Countries who are physically fighting an invasion do not hold elections for the simple reason that you can not safely hold elections in a country that is being bombed.

And unicorns are real.

It looks like Keir is ready to put British boots on the ground in Ukraine without American backup. Good luck with that

This is the part I think pp are missing

The US held elections in the middle of our civil war because we are a representative republic, and republics have elections. Yes, Ukraine could do the same. Difficult but possible. I'm a retired American military officer who has voted absentee in every election, including from some pretty interesting and far-flung places. Even in the shit we Americans hold elections and vote.

@YourAquaSnail

You sound like a fantastic, strong person. I’m so sorry your parents had to go through all of that.

Those people I know who have come here from Ukraine- including a very good friend who is now part of our family - have done similar. Got jobs and contributed to society. Much friend doesn’t like that she was uprooted from her life in Ukraine and had to come over here for an indefinite period of time, with a visa that can be revoked at any time, but she’s got on with it and done really well in her career whilst here.

No one is missing it! People just understand why it’s needed.

Much of the Ukrainian voters don't want an election during wartime.The logistics of a fair election would be a nightmare. Russia occupies about a 5th of the land, thousands of soldiers are fighting in the frontlines, an estimated 6.3 million Ukrainians are currently refugees. Another five million are internally displaced. Russia would love the distraction though.

Exactly.

Not only does the constitution of Ukraine prevent it, but how on earth would they hold an election?

How would soldiers fighting on the front vote? What about the people living under russian occupation? Are they just to be forgotten? And all the people who have fled abroad - granted that last one could be surmounted but but it would be difficult.

It's got a whiff of Putin appeasement to pretend people are missing it