To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

The US are quite rightly applying pressure to the EU to pull their weight. Why should the US taxpayer fund everyone's security?

A very reasonable question, and one which exercises an increasing number of Americans who are sick to death of nations holding out one hand to them for money and making a V sign at them with the other

As PPs have said it's the big hitters who'll have to sort out Ukraine in the end, and for all his many faults at least Trump's trying - and the realpolitik suggests Russia are likely to pay him more heed than some ex-comedian with no prior political experience at all

FWIW I'm no Trump fan either, but I strongly suspect that what some are really worried about is the kudos he'll get if he manages to pull it off

@drfosters because Trump has already made an opening offer which involves accepting Putin's most important demands before these talks have started?

Given that Japan is a major funder of Ukraine, presumably they also think that Russian aggressive expansionism is both a reality and a danger to other countries in the region. I think Japan is 4th, the US, EU and Britain being the others.

You'd have to be living in Minsk the clouds not to assess that Putin is intending to invade neighbouring countries for economic and military expansion. Because that's what has been happening since at least 2014.

Sorry i thought you were saying we shouldn’t bother to fight but let russia run roughshod over us all? But it “resonates” does if for the only country who’s ever called article 5 suddenly wants to abandon responsibilities to the alliance.

I think you’ve forgotten which line of propaganda you’re following.

Yes - I’m referencing Tory politicians to say that it’s not just Labour supporters who agree with Starmer’s stance. No that doesn’t mean the party hasn’t been compromised.

Agreed

Trump just wants to get his hands in minerals and metals that belong to Ukraine.

Putin is a dictator, focussed on regaining the entirety of the Russian Empire. He’s an imperialist expansionist, with a terrible record in human rights, who murders dissenter - Trumps just jealous, it’s everything he wants to be.

The ONLY reason that Ukraine is still fighting is because the US supplies them with weapons and satellite surveillance.

So you can't really blame the US for negotiating with the Russians. Any country that wishes to take over from the US and supply Ukraine themselves should say so.

The war cannot be "won", Russia has too many resources to throw into the fight. If it goes on much longer Ukraine will literally run out of soldiers.

What happens then?

Would you volunteer to fight there?

Would you be happy for our troops to be sent to the front lines over there?

What does this planned disinformation look like? Do you consider this a "cyber attack"?

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing I thought you'd given up responding?

Anyway are you able to post clearly your views and without attempting to rewrite my posts it's pointless and baseless.

I'm not pushing any propaganda I asked a simple question, what is the risk if we get involved?

So far you and pp have written all sorts attacks or whatever, I assume due to the typical Labour response, but it doesn't actually answer the question on risk

This is a ridiculous view but you’re entitled to your opinion

Very true

I've said before that we are already in WW3. It's being fought differently though.

Afternoon, everyone. Can we just remind people that troll-hunting is against our Talk Guidelines? If you have concerns that posters are not genuine, please just hit the report button and we can take a look behind the scenes. Thanks!

Which bit is ridiculous ?

@SpryUmberZebra What was ridiculous about ExtraOnions post?

He has been very consistent and clear that EU has to pay more to support themselves and he wants the war over through the campaign to now but your take is he is jealous of Putin and wants to be a dictator and control minerals. Ok.

I find it worrying that if Trump ends the war [would be great if it happened]. But he would then be the hero of the hour, and it would give him a free pass for anything he wants to do because he is now a 'hero'. People will soon forget what complete moronic wankers he and Musk really are.

Right but not sure exactly how these talks will affect that then if it is a foregone conclusion.

the fact is this is a war of perpetuity. One side can build and provide for itself and the other side is completely dependent on other counties supporting it. Lots of people have died and continue to die. There is no end date to the current status quo and no other leader can get the access to talk to Putin.

so ultimately it is talks with trump or a forever war as far as I can see. I’ll make my mind up when I see what comes out of them.

Trump has been open that he wants 50% of the rare minerals in Ukraine. It is the same reason he is interested in Greenland and Canada. This is old fashioned colonialism. Rich powerful country extracts resources from poorer and less powerful country either for free or for peanuts.
Trump is not hiding this agenda. He has already told Zelensky this is what he wants.

Zelenskyy has just said Ukraine won't accept the outcome of the talks unless it is part of them.

This!

So Russia is providing for itself with units of North Korean soldiers? And with the electronics supplies for their arms from China? There's a weird tone of Russia deserving to be rewarded for it's brave decision to invade here - as though "stronger" countries who can "provide for themselves" deserve what they can take.

Exactly, its rainingonmywashing, though he won't actually have a "free pass" for anything because in reality it doesn't work like that

It's a bit of an awkward one because, while we all hope for the conflict to end, many of us wish it wasn't Trump handling it
Unfortunately though it wasn't going to be Biden, even if he could have found Russia on a map by the end, and if Trump is what it takes then so be it - though that won't stop many of us blaming him for whatever he doesn't get right

@drfoster presumably the 'talks' from Trumps point of view would be a proper negotiation on which mineral rights in Ukraine the US gets, plus an agreement between them on removing sanctions from Russia, perhaps a few words about US purchase of Russian fossil fuels, a bit of discussion about methods of crushing remaining Ukrainian resistance -im sure Putin will want a free hand to slaughter and torture there. That would be the first 45 minutes.

Then six hours of dogfighting discussion about which media outlets will be allowed access to the signing ceremony, who signs first and in the biggest space on the page, and which of them will stand on the right/show their best side to the camera. Two hour break for hair and make-up. Cue handshake in front of electrical storm of photographers.

If it warrants saying, I have a 21-year-old son and am fucking terrified.

Very obviously Zelensky will have to be part of ongoing talks if anything comes of the Trump/Putin meeting, and rightly so

However if he's indulging in "nerr-nerr" because he's not involved on this particular occasion then he'll be out of luck, because like it or not - and despite the posing - he's simply not one of the big players who Putin's likely to listen to