To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

So you don't think the UK should have anything to do with peacekeeping if a settlement is reached? We should completely stay out of it?

I think excluding the UK/EU is the correct move as otherwise they will slow negotiations with their (idiotic) demands.

Lets get a framework for peace in place first without EU/UK fantasy red lines.

Edited as duplicate post

Current European plans for Ukraine

Britain and Sweden could send troops for peacekeeping

Trump offered Nobel peace prize by Poland but has to earn it

The EU is thinking hard about accelerating Ukraine

Currently European leaders are having an anxious discussion about their values, the split probably falling down old NATO lines where the pre 1999 joiners do not want to underwrite the ex Soviet bloc because they have neither the money nor the will

Ireland remains neutral, pigs safely on the ground

Prior to the wider invasion, when conflict was more localised, there was a lot of domestic and international heat on Zelenskyy for this. Conveniently forgotten once we were all required to see him as a hero crusading for democracy.

No, I mean that Europe has been freeloading for decades. If the US stops supporting the status quo in Ukraine will the EU step in to fill the void? Of course not. European countries prefer not to spend money on security.

Most European countries have a defence industry so they could spend their 5% there if they wanted to.

Well Trump correctly assesses that the EU actually has no power or traction over this issue. They are irrelevant in every way.

That’s a good way to completely misinterpret someone’s post.

From my post it’s very clear that I AM thinking two steps ahead, unlike you and the “oh no let’s not escalate” brigade.

Those words refer to the fact that at the moment we wouldn’t be conscripting anyone and that in fact sending professional soldiers now may well be the best way to avoid conscription later on.

But please pick out one line and quote it, and separately @ me, rather than using the much easier method of quoting the whole post.

There were NEVER any prosecution of "Russian ethnics" in Eastern Ukraine, its a predominantly Russian-speaking part of the country!! This is such bullshit. I grew up as a Russian-speaking Ukrainian in central Ukraine, never had any problems. My dad is a Russian who lived in Ukraine all his life, he never had any problems, even now.

As for anti-Russian hysteria... well, some people never learn. History taught us not to tolerate power-obsessed dictators, it never ends well.

Thank god - someone who has been paying attention!

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing of course we're sending professional troops and then how do we respond if fighting breaks out?

What stops that from happening?

The biggest killer of “russian speakers” in eastern Ukraine is, of course, russia.

This is what the Trumpers wanted.

And Trump clearly has very 18th century-esque European imperialist desires.

You seem to be pretty wound up, OP, while knowing a lot about "Russia taking over Eastern Europe for forty years".
From a person born in Communist Czechoslovakia, I don't care where these meetings are held. I'm fed up of the "war" in Ukraine, Mr.Zelensky's demands and the lasting impact on Prague especially, as far as increase in population goes.
Sooner this ends, sooner these people can go back home and start rebuilding their country, with the help of the West.

What do you mean “if fighting breaks out”? What do you think is happening now?

Do you honestly thing that russia is less likely to invade Poland and the rest of Europe - necessitating deeper UK involvement - if we simply bow down to them now, and let them carve off pieces of Ukraine, than if we actually stand our ground?

Have you never dealt with a bully?

@PandoraSox I'd like to see more on the risk of fighting. How high is it?

If it's high then peacekeeping is a misnomer and we're actively entering a war

The real attempt to end deaths on the Russian side is easy.
Withdrawal.

They weren't at war before they tried to take the country.

Appeasement won't work.

Yep. One of Putin's targets is Kharkiv, a beautiful city populated mainly by Russian speakers - including many Russians. He bombed it mercilessly, killing scores of civilians and destroying a lot of Ukrainian architectural heritage, including early Soviet Modernist buildings. And this is just one city.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing surely you get the difference if our troops are drawn into fighting, and a war

Are you ok with that? And providing more troops if necessary

How old are your dc out of interest

I'm interested in the conflicting views that russia is a superpower and we should be scared of them with a sad sack country that allows itself to be manipulated by "the west" into invading a sovereign country and murdering its inhabitants. You'd think a "superpower" would
Be stronger than that 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yeah and I see a pig flying past the window on Ireland joining NATO.

I would feel safer if they did.
Claiming neutrality while refueling stop over flights in war.
I have a dinghy ready, I am paddling to the UK, if there is an invasion.

An authoritarian dictatorship has managed to both invade its neighbour and kill vast numbers of people, and has installed a puppet in the White House so that it can get on with the killing unimpeded.

The Russian collusion alligations from Trump's first presidency -everyone agrees was a hoax, this is reported in the mainstream media and the FBI have not disputed the allegations that they made this up- In fact the FBI is proved to have unlawfully used survellance against the Trump team which is now being looked into.

After four years, we finally have the full 316-page report from Justice Department special counsel John Durham, and it’s a damning indictment of some of our country’s leading institutions.
Durham said the FBI should have never launched an investigation into alleged Russian collusion with Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign, given the slim evidence.
That is a huge win for Trump, who has for years called out his unfair treatment by the FBI – and a media all too willing to find blame in the former president’s actions.

The investigation into the "collusion" clouded Trump’s entire presidency, and Democrats harnessed the tale to paint Trump as an illegitimate president.
“...We conclude that the Department and the FBI failed to uphold their important mission of strict fidelity to the law in connection with certain events and activities described in this report,” Durham wrote.
For its part, the FBI does not dispute the report’s findings, but says it has already taken action and added safeguards in its investigations.

Durham also called out the role of the (now-discredited) Steele dossier, the opposition research gathered for the Hillary Clinton campaign that was in turn given to the FBI. Durham said the dossier was “unvetted and unverified,” yet was used as justification for surveillance.
“Indeed, based on the evidence gathered in multiple exhaustive and costly federal investigations of these matters, including the instant investigation, neither U.S. law enforcement nor the Intelligence Community appears to have possessed any actual evidence of collusion in their holdings at the commencement of the Crossfire Hurricane investigation," the report stated.

eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/05/17/durham-report-vindicates-trump-fbi-russia-investigation/70222344007/

Russia is not a superpower. It is basket case where there is pretend democracy, ordinary Russians are oppressed and anyone who disagrees can be imprisoned, defenestrated or disappeared.

I doubt anyone posting here would go there now, and indeed, that is our policy that you do not go. It is grim, lawless and cruel place.

I think what’s happening is that for PPs who don’t have any memory of the Cold War it’s hard to appreciate just what an impact it had on Europe. There was the ‘Iron Curtain’ separating Eastern Europe from Western Europe. Germany was divided into East Germany and West Germany, with the famous Berlin Wall.

My F was a Czech refugee living in the UK. I never met a lot of my Czech relatives until I was 20 years old because we couldn’t go there. (My F would have been arrested because he escaped from the Communists back in 1948.

I think it might well be true that there are Russian trolls on here. But there are others who simply don’t see the risk of Russian expansionist ambitions in Eastern Europe.