To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

That is not what he is proposing though, is it? He said he is prepared to put British troops on the ground in Ukraine if there is a deal to end the war with Russia.

Ukraine has been totally played by the USA but Trump is at least correct that the war needs to stop now.

I hope there will be a full examination of the decisions made by NATO and successive Ukraine leaders and in particular Zelenskyy re US and NATO operations and involvement in Ukraine, which could only ever have ended in full invasion from Russia as explicitly stated by Putin, and which were designed to do so in order to weaken Russia by putting it on a war footing, even though NATO, the USA and the EU knew there was not a chance of Russia actually being defeated by Ukraine however many secondhand bits of rusty kit they got a hold of from their supposed allies.

The human and economic costs of the entire debacle are staggering and permanently ceding Donbas is about as good as it's going to get for Ukraine now. At least they'll be able to start rebuilding and a puppet government isn't so very different from the oligarch government that led it to war. Zelenskyy can go back to his yachts and Cayman Islands investments and stop putting his people in harm's way.

The war needs to end, not endlessly prolonged like some politicians want. They should send their own children if they want it to continue on.

You seen pro Labour here, and for troops to be sent

Have you thought through the outcome if war develops with our troops there. Would you be ready to step up with your dc?

I find it concerning how easily people step into this

@Genevieva - it would. But the silence is deafening from Europe on that.

The multilateral model that has existed for the last 40 years is breaking down. That is because the countries like the US feel that actual challenges are not in Europe. They do not owe us, they feel culturally distinct. Vance told Europe " you aren't us". And the major powers of the EU are economically declining. The money and how the EU made money is declining.

It is pretty clear that the US will do deals with countries that have money and will commit it to military spending with the US and its companies. But bad news for any little EU country without a significant military. Who is going to help them?

I don’t think it’s delusional either. In each of the Baltic states, a significant minority of the population is ethnic Russian. And we all know that Russia uses these people as a pretext to invade foreign territories. Moldova is also very vulnerable.

To be fair to Starmer, he has acknowledged that could be a risk if Putin launches another attack.

@whatawonderfultime - sorry I did not mean to be rude, but Ireland and its neutrality is not going to change. The geopolitical threat here has been many times more severe in the past. Ireland has never been a candidate for its own reasons.

Well, if their children are in the armed forces, then I guess they will.

The US are quite rightly applying pressure to the EU to pull their weight. Why should the US taxpayer fun everyone's security?

do you mean the 5% of gdp, which so happens to benefit the USA as they provide 40% of arms to these wars? keeps the economy going and jobs

I do have recognised qualifications in the subject, but thanks for treating me like I'm 5.

@Genevieva Trump specifically spoke about Gazans only leaving if they wanted to (no coercion) but at least they would have the option this way, which they don’t at the moment.

I don't want to derail the Ukraine thread either, so I'll just post Trump's own statements regarding Gaza, which are the completely at odds with what you have posted.

"U.S. President Donald Trump on Tuesday [4th Feb.] suggested permanently displacing Palestinians from Gaza, saying people there had no alternative but to leave the Palestinian enclave devastated by Israel's military assault." - Reuters.

"President Trump said Saturday that Palestinians won't have the right to return to Gaza, and "I would own this," expanding on his statements last week that the U.S. would "take over" and "own" the Gaza Strip, and that Palestinians should not return."

"The president's latest suggestion that he individually would own any of the land or real estate developments in Gaza under his plan is new, although the president has repeatedly suggested that Palestinians should live elsewhere. His response that Palestinians don't have the right to return is his furthest-reaching statement on the matter... " - February 10, 2025 CBS News

Zelenskyy can go back to his yachts and Cayman Islands investments and stop putting his people in harm's way.

I really feel that Russian propaganda has been enormously successful that people are saying this type of thing with a straight face.

Reality is stood on its head. A leader who has stayed and tried to defend his country is vilified. It is now his fault that the Russians have bombed and killed so many Ukrainians.

It's not the EU! FFS how ignorant. The EU does not have the ability to do anything. It is diplomatically the most useless element in whole scenario.

Macron is having discussions in Paris precisely because the EU is irrelevant. That way he can exclude Victor Orban, Hungary's very own Putin lickspittle.

Your username is apt.
How privileged you are to not be born into a war torn country where your relatives and friends are being killed daily, simply for existing.

@whatawonderfultime you don't have to make it personal. Ireland won't make a difference here, that's all

Agreed. Rather a coincident. Irrelevant indeed

I don't understand how it's a surprise. Once Trump got in this was always going to happen.

To be fair to Starmer, he has acknowledged that could be a risk if Putin launches another attack.

I don't need people to sell in Starmer I'm more concerned about the risk

If that exists do we want to be at war?

It's a major question that the pro Starmer / Labour send the peacekeeping troops seem to be overlooking

It’s less concerning than the rest of Europe falling to authoritarianism, which is a very realistic alternative at this stage.

People just want to stay asleep and think that the peace we’ve taken for granted for decades can be protected by just throwing others under the bus.

But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Starmer is talking about sending members of our professional army, not about conscription next Tuesday. Our best chance of not having to send anyone’s DC who haven’t chosen to be soldiers is to do this. Inaction isn’t an option.

I have a friend who is my age whose son is fighting right there on the front lines right now. I am very much aware of what it would mean to send any soldiers at all into battle. But sadly freedom is not free.

But he made them do it

His skirt was too short

Give it up Europe. Russia misses its ex Soviet sphere.

^Return to the motherland, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Czechia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia.

You don't know how lucky you are, back in the USSR
^

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

But let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

I'd suggest not thinking two steps forward is the reason there's so many leaders panicking when it was obvious the US would withdraw.

So yes think several steps forward and ask what the risk is and if it's where you want your dc to be.

Why should they? Who's invading Ireland?

Britain and France carved up the Ottoman Turkish Empire after World War 1. France got Syria and Lebanon. Britain got Iraq and Palestine. None of the locals got a say. And they all lived happily ever after......