To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

What do you mean Europe is going the other way in terms of free speech?

Trump (and your post) are all about money and transactions. Collective security and empathy are out of the window.

Exactly but this is what appears to be happening now as a 'peace deal' despite thousands if not millions killed. All in vain?

The graphic shows 119.2bn contributed by the US and 132.2bn contributed by everyone else. The US has an economy 50% larger than the sum of the EU and eight times larger than the UK so it's not exactly carrying an unfair burden and it's not a majority by any stretch.

Trumps view is that the EU are mirroring the Democrats under Biden which is unpalatable to him and something he is intent on overturning in the States.

Refer to JD Vance's speech at the Munich Security Conference less than a week ago.

Trumps actions are very much all about money and transactions - the USA is going broke.

If you have to defend European countries with limited resources and there is a country that has tried to break away from the bloc, would you consider it a big priority or let it burn and focus on those who remained in bloc? I just don't think it helped our position. There is also evidence Russia interfered with the Brexit vote, by social media and other ways to influence the outcome to leave. If true they would have done this for their own ends, likely to isolate Britain away from Europe as alone we are weaker, easier to pick off, like it or not..
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Russia HAD the strongest military in Europe. That force is now very much depleted and should not be given the opportunity to replenish. The Russian economy will collapse within a year, so long as sanctions are maintained, the front only needs to be held until then.

This being the same Trump who has barred the Associated Press from White House briefings because they continue to call the Gulf of Mexico the "Gulf of Mexico". Meanwhile Muskrat is censoring Twitter and Bezos is censoring the Washington Post. Freedom of speech my arse.

I detest Trump but I find it very difficult to determine whether he is a clueless fool or he just plays this schtick very well to disarm everyone around him. The speech he gave about Ukraine sounded like something he would say on an episode of the Apprentice, seemingly confused about how much aid US had given to Ukraine and then rambling about not seeing the 'accounts' as to how it had been spent. As though this was just a bad business deal.

This appeals to the morons who voted for him and loved watching him on the apprentice.

It is terrifying how this world view and the support of it is polluting virtually all aspect of life. I am seeing videos of that plane crash in Toronto with heavy insinuation that it happened because it was an all female crew (people linking to adverts that the airline was female operated). Even if this is true, this awful, awful narrative that the alpha male, tech bros are the only people trusted to manage the world seems to becoming more and more mainstream.

@wholettheturnipsburn
well there are two ways around that aren’t there, amendment to the constitution or cancel marshal law. But my point is that Zelensky has been very strong as a war leader but change of leadership might be beneficial to the negotiation of a peace deal. He did come up with that never talk to Putin law after all

This appeals to the morons who voted for him

I know this is standard on mn these days and has been for a while. After a while people just say pay for yourselves then.

Yep, it will be Chamberlain appeasement all over again. And the USA will not bail the Continent out this time. It will just watch from the sidelines. I don’t envy the Ukranians or Europeans right now. It is pretty bad.

@EasternStandard , what do you mean please?

@lentilbake16 there's absolutely nothing to be done but I have felt for a while the ramping up of anti US rhetoric was a concern.

You see it on here, but more than here. I recall a US spokesperson talking about the same and finishing with they'll miss us when we're gone.

We've taken that alliance for granted at the same time as criticising and in some cases insulting.

In the end people take their money and stop contributing to a fight that is far away for them.

Erm, and once they've done that, what do you think Russia will do next? Sit and celebrate and stop?

In which case they should take their interference with their money and piss off back to their far away.

Not even European leaders are keen on the risk of zero US help.

Given some rhetoric you see from some it may be where we end up. It won't help Europe to be completely alone

Mad to want that.

Precisely. They haven't exactly said over to you guys to take a lead now to the Europeans have they?

Instead they have cut them out of the loop.

There seems to be this idea that the USA has been paying millions in foreign aid out of the kindness of its own heart for all these years. Massively naive - there has always been at its core US strategic and economic interest. Same way 'World Bank' has operated in developing nations. Not at all saying the US is alone in this, it is the same for all government administered foreign aid

Tump is pulling the plug, bluntly and quite literally in many cases overnight whilst at the same time insulting political leaders. Wake up. This is also going to hurt the vast majority of ordinary Americans.

Ultimately Putin wouldn't hesitate to bomb US, there are no real allies. It's all just greedy men born in each country divvying up the world like a poorly played game of Risk.

Precisely. They haven't exactly said over to you guys to take a lead now to the Europeans have they?'

@SunnyDayInFeb all the leaders have said they'll only send people if US do and the need for US help is very much present.

This squaring up is misplaced. European leaders know they need help, some mners are on a different plane. But it's just mn not the reality.

Quite a lot of the military aid was simply transferring obsolete equipment which would have cost money to decommission anyway. Meanwhile US Aid (that has now been shut down) was partly run to subsidise Midwestern farmers by buying their grain and shipping it to the third world.

It's just like Yalta all over again.

Assuming Trump supporters would be ok with the Countries (where the US is withdrawing military support and aid) from removing US military bases?

I think that's exactly what is being suggested with plans for example to wind down the US military presence in Germany. The UK has already did this some 20 years ago.