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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this isn’t cliquey?

240 replies

TheIvyRestaurant · 11/02/2025 16:55

I have a son in year 3, he started in reception class just after lockdown, and we had moved across the country as a family as well to a place where I (a massive extrovert) knew nobody and did a WFH job so was eager to make friends.

The other mums were very sociable and one mum would set up a mums WhatsApp group and arranged regular mums nights out, about 4 a year, and often to welcome new mums who gradually joined. These were very inclusive, and would be places where people could get just a drink or they could eat as well and stay as long as they pleased.

As time went on the numbers dwindled, and the same people would initially say yes and then cancel last minute. Or they’d say yes and just not turn up which is quite embarrassing when a table has been booked. Someone would normally follow up with them - sometimes they’d reply sometimes they wouldn’t! And they’d do it again the next time.

It became clear that just 6 of us consistently turned up to these nights. By year 2 the 6 of us became close friends and we set up a separate WhatsApp group and arranged nights out, nights/days in, cinema trips, the occasional play date etc. We also chat at pick up and drop off, because we’re friends.

the whole class night out invotations still go out but less frequently - only one this academic year at Christmas, as just fewer people seem to want to join.

The 6 of us had a night out on Saturday and spotted another mum with her DH in a restaurant. This mum hasn’t been on a mum’s night out since reception year, and has cancelled a couple of times on the day for other nights out (relevant) we all said hello but as none of us are her friend we didn’t stop to chat.

My friend who organises the nights out (who’s in the group of six) put on the whole mums group chat yesterday about a potential night out in April. The mum we saw on Saturday replied “Is this for everyone or just the clique?”. When my friend asked her what she meant she said there is a clique that excludes people from social gatherings and also at pick up and drop off as well.

Now We are in our 4th year of schooling these kids, and personally think it’s fine to not shout “roll up roll up come for a chat” in the playground or in ie every last person to every single gathering a few of us have. It’s fine to have made friends, and it seems the people who’ve made friends are the ones who’ve made the effort.

This mum NEVER approaches us to say hello, and has never made a real effort since reception. I don’t think it’s fair to say we are a clique when actually we are just friends who have consistently made the effort with each other.

AIBU to think our group of six have the right to hang out without inviting everyone in the class because a friendship has been formed separately as adults, rather than only being linked through our children?

OP posts:
TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:50

Didimum · 12/02/2025 08:12

What you are saying is fine on the face of it, but nuances matter, and you all might be giving off a generally unpleasant and unwelcoming vibe at school times/events etc.

Perhaps this particular mum found it rude that you didn’t stop for a 5 minute chat with her when you saw her, depending on how your behaviour is perceived by others. You don’t have to be ‘friends’ to give someone the time of day when you presumably see her almost every day, maybe twice a day, and/or your kids have been in school together for 3-4yrs.

If people think I give off unfriendly vibes that’s entirely down to how they want to see me and nothing else because I’m anything but unfriendly.

Also it would be quite awkward for six of us to crowd round a table of 2 in a tightly packed restaurant for 5 minutes.

OP posts:
TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:52

Didimum · 12/02/2025 08:49

Once again, depends how approachable they come across.

But isn’t “coming across” subjective? My DH often comes across as a right moody bastard but he just has an angry resting face and has to say to people “I’m not in a mood it’s just my face”.

OP posts:
Oodlesandoodlesofnoodles · 12/02/2025 09:02

I think you should reply:

Obviously this is an open invitation for all class parents seeing as it’s being posted on the class WhatsApp group 🙄. I’m slightly confused about why you object to local people having friends and meeting up and why that’s surprising or offensive, particularly considering you were out having an exclusive evening with a school dad from the class and didn’t invite us. Laura has made the effort to organise class socials every year, they aren’t often well supported and it’s the people who don’t bother coming to them who are then offended when stronger friendships form. I will be suprised if she keeps bothering to organise any more socials after all this hassle.

Or perhaps, just from the person who organises the socials:

You know what, I’m done organising class socials. March 8th is cancelled unless someone else wants to take over.

WhatDidIComeInThisRoomFor · 12/02/2025 09:07

Pass-ag woman doesn’t make herself sound good here, I bet there is a lot of eye rolling going on amongst other mums.

So what if people form smaller groups? I bet in your DC’s year group there are mums / parents who meet up in small groups having got to know each other from waiting around together at their kids’ swimming or football or ballet classes for weeks. But because you are a visible group as you’ll chat in the playground, you’re the target.

Has anyone replied to her? I’d say - “this group is for everyone and it would be great to have a bigger crowd come along… anyone who wants to suggest and organise a night out is welcome to do so.”

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 09:09

Yes, pass the organising stuff to the moany mum.

Didimum · 12/02/2025 09:17

TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:50

If people think I give off unfriendly vibes that’s entirely down to how they want to see me and nothing else because I’m anything but unfriendly.

Also it would be quite awkward for six of us to crowd round a table of 2 in a tightly packed restaurant for 5 minutes.

Edited

Not you specifically, but your group. Or perhaps the organiser mum, since her message was the one targeted.

As I said, I don’t think YABU on the face of it, but subtleties matter in social contexts. Body language etc. 90% of communication is non-verbal. Maybe this mum has beef with the organiser mum.

Didimum · 12/02/2025 09:20

TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:52

But isn’t “coming across” subjective? My DH often comes across as a right moody bastard but he just has an angry resting face and has to say to people “I’m not in a mood it’s just my face”.

Of course it’s subjective. But we don’t know what the majority of the other mums think of your manner and why. (And when I say ‘you’ I mean the collective group).

Im not trying to say you’re being a bitch, I’m giving reasons why the other mum (not knowing either her nor any of you) may have reacted strongly to a text.

Estampie · 12/02/2025 09:27

CharityShopChic · 12/02/2025 08:32

Why can't the other mum approach OP for a chat? Why does OP have to be the official meet and greeter?

It's give and take, isn't it. If you want to be included/invited or start to make friends, you have to be prepared to do 50% of the running. And so many on MN (and presumably in general) aren't prepared to do that. They expect everyone else to approach THEM, to start conversations, proactively notice they are standing on their own and come across, to make all the effort to include them.

Also agree that on MN "extrovert" means someone who answers the door and doesn't cower in horror from making small talk with a stranger on public transport or in a shop.

This. The OP has done nothing wrong, and nor, probably, have the vast majority of the Horror School Mums who operate a system of 'cliques', 'exclusions' and 'side-eye' in the opinion of the type of poster who puts far more of her energy into complaining on the internet into actually talking to other parents in the playground.

(My DS spent his first four years of school in a village school which was in fact rather unfriendly, as virtually all other parents had gone to the school themselves and had grown up together and weren't open to a foreigner who'd just moved to the area, but you know what -- it wasn't actually their job to befriend me. I was friendly, they didn't respond, and that was OK. Sometimes a person just doesn't gel with her social environment.)

rookiemere · 12/02/2025 10:20

WhatDidIComeInThisRoomFor · 12/02/2025 09:07

Pass-ag woman doesn’t make herself sound good here, I bet there is a lot of eye rolling going on amongst other mums.

So what if people form smaller groups? I bet in your DC’s year group there are mums / parents who meet up in small groups having got to know each other from waiting around together at their kids’ swimming or football or ballet classes for weeks. But because you are a visible group as you’ll chat in the playground, you’re the target.

Has anyone replied to her? I’d say - “this group is for everyone and it would be great to have a bigger crowd come along… anyone who wants to suggest and organise a night out is welcome to do so.”

This is a good response, kill her with kindness. Any response other than a thumbs up or a positive one is going to make her look like even more of an absolute idiot.

Maddy70 · 12/02/2025 10:23

She's being passive aggressive. Reply, this is obviously for everyone to get to know each other better.

saraclara · 12/02/2025 10:27

I'd want to rely "there is no clique, just smaller groups of people who have become friends in their own right over the last four years. Absolutely everyone is welcome to this event, and I for one am very grateful to X for continuing to organise and provide these occasions for us"

BoredZelda · 12/02/2025 10:47

I was on the other side of this back in early primary school days.

Invited out to large group meet ups which, over time became the rest of us spectating on the "clique" group who monopolised the conversations and you could see the eyes of the other mums rolling. At one, the extrovert mum introduced herself as "Jamie's mum, don't worry, he's not the bad Jamie" The other Jamie's mum was sitting next to me and blushed bright red. I knew her a bit, because her son and my daughter went to the same ASN playgroup, he's since been diagnosed with ADHD. The numbers dwindled because these parents were insufferable as a group.

The best thing you can do is leave the group WhatsApp. They will decide if they want to continue it and have meet ups.

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 10:53

BoredZelda · 12/02/2025 10:47

I was on the other side of this back in early primary school days.

Invited out to large group meet ups which, over time became the rest of us spectating on the "clique" group who monopolised the conversations and you could see the eyes of the other mums rolling. At one, the extrovert mum introduced herself as "Jamie's mum, don't worry, he's not the bad Jamie" The other Jamie's mum was sitting next to me and blushed bright red. I knew her a bit, because her son and my daughter went to the same ASN playgroup, he's since been diagnosed with ADHD. The numbers dwindled because these parents were insufferable as a group.

The best thing you can do is leave the group WhatsApp. They will decide if they want to continue it and have meet ups.

This is a classic example of how extroverts are demonised on MN and introverts are deep, worthy individuals.

Why were you " spectating", whatever that means? Speculating? If you felt that convos were being monopolised, why not join in instead of rolling your eyes?

Jamie's mum sounds like a dick. But both extroverts and introverts can be dicks.

Estampie · 12/02/2025 10:57

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 10:53

This is a classic example of how extroverts are demonised on MN and introverts are deep, worthy individuals.

Why were you " spectating", whatever that means? Speculating? If you felt that convos were being monopolised, why not join in instead of rolling your eyes?

Jamie's mum sounds like a dick. But both extroverts and introverts can be dicks.

This. Plus most people on Mn routinely misuse the terms introvert and extrovert, anyway. If you are socially confident and talkative, this does not make you an extrovert. If you are 'bubbly', gobby, dominate conversation and regularly make other people the butt of your jokes, this doesn't make you an extrovert either, it makes you a pain in the arse.

TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 10:58

BoredZelda · 12/02/2025 10:47

I was on the other side of this back in early primary school days.

Invited out to large group meet ups which, over time became the rest of us spectating on the "clique" group who monopolised the conversations and you could see the eyes of the other mums rolling. At one, the extrovert mum introduced herself as "Jamie's mum, don't worry, he's not the bad Jamie" The other Jamie's mum was sitting next to me and blushed bright red. I knew her a bit, because her son and my daughter went to the same ASN playgroup, he's since been diagnosed with ADHD. The numbers dwindled because these parents were insufferable as a group.

The best thing you can do is leave the group WhatsApp. They will decide if they want to continue it and have meet ups.

Why should I leave the WhatsApp group? I’ve done nothing wrong and it’s useful to stay in

OP posts:
TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 10:59

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 10:53

This is a classic example of how extroverts are demonised on MN and introverts are deep, worthy individuals.

Why were you " spectating", whatever that means? Speculating? If you felt that convos were being monopolised, why not join in instead of rolling your eyes?

Jamie's mum sounds like a dick. But both extroverts and introverts can be dicks.

Totally agree.

I can’t be doing with grown ups who can’t have a conversation and sit seething and saying nothing when other people do.

OP posts:
BoredZelda · 12/02/2025 10:59

Exactly. When you make friends at work, nobody quizzes you why you haven’t befriended the whole office!

I disagree. There was a group of women who always went out for lunch together, I wasn;t invited (not a problem to me, I'd rather stick hot pins in my eyes than do that) but a few of the bosses have commented to me about it, and they did invite me once, after a boss had commented to me about it so I presume he did the same to them.

One of our offices upstairs is entirely guys. About half of them go out for lunch together and again, the bosses have asked why the others aren't going with them.

TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 11:00

Estampie · 12/02/2025 10:57

This. Plus most people on Mn routinely misuse the terms introvert and extrovert, anyway. If you are socially confident and talkative, this does not make you an extrovert. If you are 'bubbly', gobby, dominate conversation and regularly make other people the butt of your jokes, this doesn't make you an extrovert either, it makes you a pain in the arse.

Yep. An extrovert is someone who feeds off the energy of others, not “a rude gobshite”

OP posts:
BoredZelda · 12/02/2025 11:05

because I’m anything but unfriendly.

Avoiding people because they don't make what you deem to be enough of an effort to engage, doesn't seem particularly friendly.

Some of your responses have been quite unfriendly.

None of this is a problem, you do you and all that. I'm probably a similar person (except I'm introvert on the inside). I would describe myself as friendly when I want to be, and in most social interactions. I'd never suggest I was anything but unfriendly. I don't suffer fools and I'm sure I come across as quite rude sometimes. I couldn't care less.

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 11:09

Don't leave the WA group.
Continue making friends with those who match your effort.

arethereanyleftatall · 12/02/2025 11:15

You're just a group of friends.

And that's allowed.

Yanbu.

CharityShopChic · 12/02/2025 11:22

Avoiding people because they don't make what you deem to be enough of an effort to engage, doesn't seem particularly friendly.

Jeez Louise.

What is the OP supposed to do with people who don't turn up to group meets or turn up at pre-arranged nights out? Appear at their door and drag them out? Give them an interrogation as to why they didn't come? Send endless texts? Because that would all be totally reasonable, wouldn't it?

TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 11:22

BoredZelda · 12/02/2025 11:05

because I’m anything but unfriendly.

Avoiding people because they don't make what you deem to be enough of an effort to engage, doesn't seem particularly friendly.

Some of your responses have been quite unfriendly.

None of this is a problem, you do you and all that. I'm probably a similar person (except I'm introvert on the inside). I would describe myself as friendly when I want to be, and in most social interactions. I'd never suggest I was anything but unfriendly. I don't suffer fools and I'm sure I come across as quite rude sometimes. I couldn't care less.

So I should just persist speaking to people who clearly aren’t interested in having a conversation? Thats not friendly that’s creepy

OP posts:
BoredZelda · 12/02/2025 11:22

This is a classic example of how extroverts are demonised on MN and introverts are deep, worthy individuals.

This is a classic example of taking one comment and using it to demonise an entire forum, to suit your own conformation bias.

Why were you " spectating", whatever that means? Speculating? If you felt that convos were being monopolised, why not join in instead of rolling your eyes?

We were (largely) spectating because it was impossible to do anything else. If you have found yourself in a group conversation like this, and think you can just join in, then you are the one who is doing the monopolising. We rolled our eyes because it was an embarrassment.

Jamie's mum sounds like a dick. But both extroverts and introverts can be dicks.

Jamie's mum, on her own, is actually a really nice person. We now are together on a high school committee. But in that group dynamic, together with her clique, they were insufferable.

None of this is about introverts and extroverts, it is about small groups forming within a large group, and how they can be exclusionary, even when others are invited and that's why over time people choose not to go to these events.

TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 11:24

that's why over time people choose not to go to these events.

FFS be a grown up and join in - and then don’t moan if you don’t wanna go but others do!

OP posts: