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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this isn’t cliquey?

240 replies

TheIvyRestaurant · 11/02/2025 16:55

I have a son in year 3, he started in reception class just after lockdown, and we had moved across the country as a family as well to a place where I (a massive extrovert) knew nobody and did a WFH job so was eager to make friends.

The other mums were very sociable and one mum would set up a mums WhatsApp group and arranged regular mums nights out, about 4 a year, and often to welcome new mums who gradually joined. These were very inclusive, and would be places where people could get just a drink or they could eat as well and stay as long as they pleased.

As time went on the numbers dwindled, and the same people would initially say yes and then cancel last minute. Or they’d say yes and just not turn up which is quite embarrassing when a table has been booked. Someone would normally follow up with them - sometimes they’d reply sometimes they wouldn’t! And they’d do it again the next time.

It became clear that just 6 of us consistently turned up to these nights. By year 2 the 6 of us became close friends and we set up a separate WhatsApp group and arranged nights out, nights/days in, cinema trips, the occasional play date etc. We also chat at pick up and drop off, because we’re friends.

the whole class night out invotations still go out but less frequently - only one this academic year at Christmas, as just fewer people seem to want to join.

The 6 of us had a night out on Saturday and spotted another mum with her DH in a restaurant. This mum hasn’t been on a mum’s night out since reception year, and has cancelled a couple of times on the day for other nights out (relevant) we all said hello but as none of us are her friend we didn’t stop to chat.

My friend who organises the nights out (who’s in the group of six) put on the whole mums group chat yesterday about a potential night out in April. The mum we saw on Saturday replied “Is this for everyone or just the clique?”. When my friend asked her what she meant she said there is a clique that excludes people from social gatherings and also at pick up and drop off as well.

Now We are in our 4th year of schooling these kids, and personally think it’s fine to not shout “roll up roll up come for a chat” in the playground or in ie every last person to every single gathering a few of us have. It’s fine to have made friends, and it seems the people who’ve made friends are the ones who’ve made the effort.

This mum NEVER approaches us to say hello, and has never made a real effort since reception. I don’t think it’s fair to say we are a clique when actually we are just friends who have consistently made the effort with each other.

AIBU to think our group of six have the right to hang out without inviting everyone in the class because a friendship has been formed separately as adults, rather than only being linked through our children?

OP posts:
Notodrugs · 12/02/2025 02:31

TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 01:57

your reply doesn’t explain why I have to “be nice” to my own detriment? Why should I?

What is your definition of a clique?

Show quote history

Because I didn't say that at all, you either misread or you're being deliberately argumentative. In fact if you read it again it specifically says "you don't". Sorry we don't agree, it is what it is. I don't give a shit if you're in a clique or not, just offering my opinion on a thread which asked if we thought you were

setmestraightplease · 12/02/2025 02:33

@TheIvyRestaurant Your issue seems to be that you're happy with the group of people you meet up with to be called a group of people you meet up, whereas other people seem to view it as a clique

er .......why on earth does it matter so much whether it's a group of people you meet up, or a clique

But why can’t we be friends just the six of us without an accusation make?

You can ..... does it actually matter what other people 'accuse' you of?
People always have opinions of who you are, and what you do, and why you do it - and it will always suit their own narrative ................. and in that way they'll feel comfortable about their own lives.

It's life - some people see it the same way you do, some people have different opinions. So what??!

You're making it sound as though extroverts need validation and agreement from everybody else to feel comfortable in their lives and can't stand different opinions because it undermines their reality?? ......

jellyfishperiwinkle · 12/02/2025 04:59

It's not a clique, it's a friendship group which entirely naturally has formed by your having kids in the same class in common and getting on well together. You don't have to include other people in it, especially those who are flakey and make bitchy remarks. Whether you want to try and have wider class gatherings is another matter. I would just leave it someone else to organise it.

BuckleBrothers · 12/02/2025 05:07

username299 · 11/02/2025 17:26

No I didn't miss that. Did you miss the part where only six of them meet on a regular basis and don't invite anyone else?

Show quote history

Are people not allowed to form individual friendships?! Are they meant to meet as a group of 30 forever?!

people here often struggle to differentiate between a clique and a group of friends. It’s really strange.

BuckleBrothers · 12/02/2025 05:18

I went out with some school mums last week. There was only four of us. Should we have invited everybody from when the kids were 4? The kids are now at university... At what stage of people are allowed to become separate friends?!

Spottedplant · 12/02/2025 06:42

First off, I'm completely with OP that she is allowed to go out with her friends and the other mum is a moaning Minnie.

However there is a weird thing that happens around power and authority when a group self organises, and I probably think now (after years of being completely like the OP) that when you kindly take on a role of responsibility in a group, however informally, you need to be mindful that this comes with an inevitable responsibility. Just "being kind" isn't exactly the right way to do it. In our class WhatsApp there are two specific class reps, who at the start of the year explicitly volunteered to sort the meetups and other things. At the end of each year they are showered with gratitude and someone else in the group organises a whip round and a present (contribution not compulsory!)

The fact that this is an official "role" means that the rep has to think about inclusive ways to ask people how they'd like to meet up, how often, what types of events. Coffee meet ups after drop-off? One pub meet up per term? Raucous karaoke nights every month? Picnics? It'll depend on the broader consensus of the class.

There is inertia and shyness in any big group of people and most will need to be clearly and jovially nudged even to tick the box on the poll "I don't mind, I don't have much time for meetups" or to say what they prefer.

Therefore the meetups are already transparently what the group have said and the reps explain their decision making, like "most people didn't want a Christmas drinks as this time of year is so busy so we will do two coffee mornings in March to give most people chance to check in at least". The reps will name the fact that people aren't coming and ask for the group to confirm whether it's the event that's wrong, or whether people just aren't feeling it, which is fine but could they please engage enough to say which.

When I was the rep I'd do the meetup, try and take a photo of the biggest gang there, post on the chat something really inclusive afterwards, and actively seek feedback (again) from those who hadn't come (again on the chat, not stalking!) saying how great it would be to see people next time, asking for feedback of what people had liked and what we should do differently next time.

Frankly there is a lot more hidden work in maintaining the inclusivity of a group than you might think. OP has done a quite reasonable thing inviting folks to things, events which seem sensible types of get together that she and a few others would enjoy. But she hasn't followed up over the years to see what's under the surface of others not joining. Maybe the pub is not to everyone's taste. Maybe the timing was off. Maybe there's just something about the vibe that makes people flake out and feel uneasy.

OP won't want to hear this but she has unfortunately, and with the kindest intentions, put herself in a position of authority within a class group. This means that if someone else was now to post "I've got an idea why don't we do a class meetup at X" this would feel quite weird. The person doing it might feel an insurmountable social barrier because this is the "job" of OP and friends/ clique.

So you're stuck - others might feel resentful but feel that now so much time has passed they can't change the status quo because it will be seen as a challenge to the group. Little do they know you'd like them to step up!

Basically tldr if you're the person who steps into am organising role and you don't do something quite extensive to keep it inclusive, you'll end up with people eyerolling and feeling excluded. It's not fair but that's the way it works in these strange groups of hairless chimps we call humans.

Savemefromwetdog · 12/02/2025 06:47

People can be so weird about some school Mums becoming friends. No other facet of life seems to draw the same ire.

YANBU, OP.

Autumn38 · 12/02/2025 06:48

username299 · 11/02/2025 17:26

No I didn't miss that. Did you miss the part where only six of them meet on a regular basis and don't invite anyone else?

Show quote history

But they are close friends? Sometimes they get together as friends. Other times they suggest get-togethers with the school mums. the two relationships are clearly different…

Surely this is why you make an effort in the first place- to make friends? If you don’t show up to invitations you don’t make friends and you stop getting invited. You learn this as a 7 year old surely?

I don’t get your thinking on this one (and I hate school gate politics)

TheaBrandt1 · 12/02/2025 06:54

Seems that some think that if you “step up” and organise general social events you are then taking on ongoing responsibility for other people in the groups social lives. Then they resent it when you step away and go off and have a social life of your own!

Enjoy your “clique” op. Mine is absolutely brilliant because of them we have an active busy local social life even though our children are now 18! Our next 4 sat nights are full off meals out / parties / weekend trips with them.

labamba007 · 12/02/2025 06:59

I'm one of the mums who doesn't get involved as much as others (I don't cancel anything last minute though). It doesn't bother me one bit that there's now a small group of mum friends and I'm not invited to stuff. It's not personal they have spent more time together and formed those friendships. We're all still friendly. This woman sounds weird.

BuckleBrothers · 12/02/2025 07:51

Savemefromwetdog · 12/02/2025 06:47

People can be so weird about some school Mums becoming friends. No other facet of life seems to draw the same ire.

YANBU, OP.

Exactly. When you make friends at work, nobody quizzes you why you haven’t befriended the whole office!

BuckleBrothers · 12/02/2025 07:55

Spottedplant · 12/02/2025 06:42

First off, I'm completely with OP that she is allowed to go out with her friends and the other mum is a moaning Minnie.

However there is a weird thing that happens around power and authority when a group self organises, and I probably think now (after years of being completely like the OP) that when you kindly take on a role of responsibility in a group, however informally, you need to be mindful that this comes with an inevitable responsibility. Just "being kind" isn't exactly the right way to do it. In our class WhatsApp there are two specific class reps, who at the start of the year explicitly volunteered to sort the meetups and other things. At the end of each year they are showered with gratitude and someone else in the group organises a whip round and a present (contribution not compulsory!)

The fact that this is an official "role" means that the rep has to think about inclusive ways to ask people how they'd like to meet up, how often, what types of events. Coffee meet ups after drop-off? One pub meet up per term? Raucous karaoke nights every month? Picnics? It'll depend on the broader consensus of the class.

There is inertia and shyness in any big group of people and most will need to be clearly and jovially nudged even to tick the box on the poll "I don't mind, I don't have much time for meetups" or to say what they prefer.

Therefore the meetups are already transparently what the group have said and the reps explain their decision making, like "most people didn't want a Christmas drinks as this time of year is so busy so we will do two coffee mornings in March to give most people chance to check in at least". The reps will name the fact that people aren't coming and ask for the group to confirm whether it's the event that's wrong, or whether people just aren't feeling it, which is fine but could they please engage enough to say which.

When I was the rep I'd do the meetup, try and take a photo of the biggest gang there, post on the chat something really inclusive afterwards, and actively seek feedback (again) from those who hadn't come (again on the chat, not stalking!) saying how great it would be to see people next time, asking for feedback of what people had liked and what we should do differently next time.

Frankly there is a lot more hidden work in maintaining the inclusivity of a group than you might think. OP has done a quite reasonable thing inviting folks to things, events which seem sensible types of get together that she and a few others would enjoy. But she hasn't followed up over the years to see what's under the surface of others not joining. Maybe the pub is not to everyone's taste. Maybe the timing was off. Maybe there's just something about the vibe that makes people flake out and feel uneasy.

OP won't want to hear this but she has unfortunately, and with the kindest intentions, put herself in a position of authority within a class group. This means that if someone else was now to post "I've got an idea why don't we do a class meetup at X" this would feel quite weird. The person doing it might feel an insurmountable social barrier because this is the "job" of OP and friends/ clique.

So you're stuck - others might feel resentful but feel that now so much time has passed they can't change the status quo because it will be seen as a challenge to the group. Little do they know you'd like them to step up!

Basically tldr if you're the person who steps into am organising role and you don't do something quite extensive to keep it inclusive, you'll end up with people eyerolling and feeling excluded. It's not fair but that's the way it works in these strange groups of hairless chimps we call humans.

I was just grateful to whoever stepped up. I didn’t see it as their role to accommodate every single person’s wants and needs. People are busy and this is a role of class rep, not therapist or life coach!

BuckleBrothers · 12/02/2025 07:58

TheaBrandt1 · 12/02/2025 06:54

Seems that some think that if you “step up” and organise general social events you are then taking on ongoing responsibility for other people in the groups social lives. Then they resent it when you step away and go off and have a social life of your own!

Enjoy your “clique” op. Mine is absolutely brilliant because of them we have an active busy local social life even though our children are now 18! Our next 4 sat nights are full off meals out / parties / weekend trips with them.

Our girls are 22 now and my husband went to a quiz night last week with four school dads! I wonder if they were being cliquey and should have invited Anna, the mum of Daniel from Y3…

Original poster
TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 07:59

Notodrugs · 12/02/2025 02:31

Because I didn't say that at all, you either misread or you're being deliberately argumentative. In fact if you read it again it specifically says "you don't". Sorry we don't agree, it is what it is. I don't give a shit if you're in a clique or not, just offering my opinion on a thread which asked if we thought you were

Edited
Show quote history

Um I don’t expect you to give a ahit but when someone said “Why should OP have to [invite other to meetings with friends]” you said “because it’s a nice thing to do” then for all sarcastic when I challenged it. So I’m simply asking why it’s important to ‘be nice’ and what kind of situations people should ‘be nice’ in. I mean YOU posted that. I don’t think it’s asking much to explain why I should “be nice”

OP posts:
Original poster
TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:02

setmestraightplease · 12/02/2025 02:33

@TheIvyRestaurant Your issue seems to be that you're happy with the group of people you meet up with to be called a group of people you meet up, whereas other people seem to view it as a clique

er .......why on earth does it matter so much whether it's a group of people you meet up, or a clique

But why can’t we be friends just the six of us without an accusation make?

You can ..... does it actually matter what other people 'accuse' you of?
People always have opinions of who you are, and what you do, and why you do it - and it will always suit their own narrative ................. and in that way they'll feel comfortable about their own lives.

It's life - some people see it the same way you do, some people have different opinions. So what??!

You're making it sound as though extroverts need validation and agreement from everybody else to feel comfortable in their lives and can't stand different opinions because it undermines their reality?? ......

Edited

Because calling it a clique is IMO an incorrect term used to have a dig at us. And only ever have a go at women who dare to make friendships like there’s something wrong with not being everybody’s friend. And it matters because it’s not caused conflict in a place I have to go every day and I don’t really like being made to look the bad guy

You're making it sound as though extroverts need validation and agreement from everybody else to feel comfortable in their lives and can't stand different opinions because it undermines their reality?? ......

Eh?! I mentioned being an extrovert to paint a picture of why good friendships are important for me no other reason

OP posts:
Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 08:03

Op, don't you know MN hates extroverts by now? You would have got sympathy if you had confessed to being terrrified of everyone at the school gates.

You have done enough and more for the flakey mums. Carry on in your supposed 'clique' and have a good time!

saraclara · 12/02/2025 08:03

I'd reply "after four years of socialising, it's natural for individual friendships and smaller friendship groups to form. But this event is, if course, for all. It'd be great to see as many of you as possible"

Original poster
TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:07

Spottedplant · 12/02/2025 06:42

First off, I'm completely with OP that she is allowed to go out with her friends and the other mum is a moaning Minnie.

However there is a weird thing that happens around power and authority when a group self organises, and I probably think now (after years of being completely like the OP) that when you kindly take on a role of responsibility in a group, however informally, you need to be mindful that this comes with an inevitable responsibility. Just "being kind" isn't exactly the right way to do it. In our class WhatsApp there are two specific class reps, who at the start of the year explicitly volunteered to sort the meetups and other things. At the end of each year they are showered with gratitude and someone else in the group organises a whip round and a present (contribution not compulsory!)

The fact that this is an official "role" means that the rep has to think about inclusive ways to ask people how they'd like to meet up, how often, what types of events. Coffee meet ups after drop-off? One pub meet up per term? Raucous karaoke nights every month? Picnics? It'll depend on the broader consensus of the class.

There is inertia and shyness in any big group of people and most will need to be clearly and jovially nudged even to tick the box on the poll "I don't mind, I don't have much time for meetups" or to say what they prefer.

Therefore the meetups are already transparently what the group have said and the reps explain their decision making, like "most people didn't want a Christmas drinks as this time of year is so busy so we will do two coffee mornings in March to give most people chance to check in at least". The reps will name the fact that people aren't coming and ask for the group to confirm whether it's the event that's wrong, or whether people just aren't feeling it, which is fine but could they please engage enough to say which.

When I was the rep I'd do the meetup, try and take a photo of the biggest gang there, post on the chat something really inclusive afterwards, and actively seek feedback (again) from those who hadn't come (again on the chat, not stalking!) saying how great it would be to see people next time, asking for feedback of what people had liked and what we should do differently next time.

Frankly there is a lot more hidden work in maintaining the inclusivity of a group than you might think. OP has done a quite reasonable thing inviting folks to things, events which seem sensible types of get together that she and a few others would enjoy. But she hasn't followed up over the years to see what's under the surface of others not joining. Maybe the pub is not to everyone's taste. Maybe the timing was off. Maybe there's just something about the vibe that makes people flake out and feel uneasy.

OP won't want to hear this but she has unfortunately, and with the kindest intentions, put herself in a position of authority within a class group. This means that if someone else was now to post "I've got an idea why don't we do a class meetup at X" this would feel quite weird. The person doing it might feel an insurmountable social barrier because this is the "job" of OP and friends/ clique.

So you're stuck - others might feel resentful but feel that now so much time has passed they can't change the status quo because it will be seen as a challenge to the group. Little do they know you'd like them to step up!

Basically tldr if you're the person who steps into am organising role and you don't do something quite extensive to keep it inclusive, you'll end up with people eyerolling and feeling excluded. It's not fair but that's the way it works in these strange groups of hairless chimps we call humans.

I’d love to take the credit for being the organiser or a class rep but it’s never me who does the organising (and basically for the very good points you’ve made - it’s a minefield I CBA with!).

We don’t have a class rep either - my friend just has unofficially taken on “booker of meet ups”. The PTA keep trying to recruit people to the formal class rep role but no one has ever taken it up!

OP posts:
Original poster
TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:11

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 08:03

Op, don't you know MN hates extroverts by now? You would have got sympathy if you had confessed to being terrrified of everyone at the school gates.

You have done enough and more for the flakey mums. Carry on in your supposed 'clique' and have a good time!

Haha I should have known! I quite like it when people come to the door as well even if it’s a parcel for a neighbour, somehow I don’t manage to hide behind a cushion calling 101 😂

OP posts:
Didimum · 12/02/2025 08:12

What you are saying is fine on the face of it, but nuances matter, and you all might be giving off a generally unpleasant and unwelcoming vibe at school times/events etc.

Perhaps this particular mum found it rude that you didn’t stop for a 5 minute chat with her when you saw her, depending on how your behaviour is perceived by others. You don’t have to be ‘friends’ to give someone the time of day when you presumably see her almost every day, maybe twice a day, and/or your kids have been in school together for 3-4yrs.

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 08:17

I am with you, OP. I am always the one who does all the running, and I have no time anymore for people who don't turn up, give one word answers or simply don't match my effort.

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 08:22

Didimum · 12/02/2025 08:12

What you are saying is fine on the face of it, but nuances matter, and you all might be giving off a generally unpleasant and unwelcoming vibe at school times/events etc.

Perhaps this particular mum found it rude that you didn’t stop for a 5 minute chat with her when you saw her, depending on how your behaviour is perceived by others. You don’t have to be ‘friends’ to give someone the time of day when you presumably see her almost every day, maybe twice a day, and/or your kids have been in school together for 3-4yrs.

Why can't the other mum approach OP for a chat? Why does OP have to be the official meet and greeter?
If you cancel several times leaving people with booked tables, dont be surprised if people aren't chatty with you.

CharityShopChic · 12/02/2025 08:32

Why can't the other mum approach OP for a chat? Why does OP have to be the official meet and greeter?

It's give and take, isn't it. If you want to be included/invited or start to make friends, you have to be prepared to do 50% of the running. And so many on MN (and presumably in general) aren't prepared to do that. They expect everyone else to approach THEM, to start conversations, proactively notice they are standing on their own and come across, to make all the effort to include them.

Also agree that on MN "extrovert" means someone who answers the door and doesn't cower in horror from making small talk with a stranger on public transport or in a shop.

rookiemere · 12/02/2025 08:41

You're allowed to go out with friends you have made through your DCs school, not everyone has to be invited to everything. This other DM presumably also has working digits and could take the trouble to organise a whole class DMs night out if she wanted.

Some people see a conspiracy in everything, meanwhile they don't extend the hand of friendship or indeed cordial conversation to others, but like to harp on about Queen Bees and cliques. Can't they just accept that just as in other areas of life some people naturally gravitate together, as long as it doesn't impact on the DCs in anyway then it's nobody's business.

Didimum · 12/02/2025 08:49

Once again, depends how approachable they come across.