To think this isn’t cliquey?

[TheIvyRestaurant]

I have a son in year 3, he started in reception class just after lockdown, and we had moved across the country as a family as well to a place where I (a massive extrovert) knew nobody and did a WFH job so was eager to make friends.

The other mums were very sociable and one mum would set up a mums WhatsApp group and arranged regular mums nights out, about 4 a year, and often to welcome new mums who gradually joined. These were very inclusive, and would be places where people could get just a drink or they could eat as well and stay as long as they pleased.

As time went on the numbers dwindled, and the same people would initially say yes and then cancel last minute. Or they’d say yes and just not turn up which is quite embarrassing when a table has been booked. Someone would normally follow up with them - sometimes they’d reply sometimes they wouldn’t! And they’d do it again the next time.

It became clear that just 6 of us consistently turned up to these nights. By year 2 the 6 of us became close friends and we set up a separate WhatsApp group and arranged nights out, nights/days in, cinema trips, the occasional play date etc. We also chat at pick up and drop off, because we’re friends.

the whole class night out invotations still go out but less frequently - only one this academic year at Christmas, as just fewer people seem to want to join.

The 6 of us had a night out on Saturday and spotted another mum with her DH in a restaurant. This mum hasn’t been on a mum’s night out since reception year, and has cancelled a couple of times on the day for other nights out (relevant) we all said hello but as none of us are her friend we didn’t stop to chat.

My friend who organises the nights out (who’s in the group of six) put on the whole mums group chat yesterday about a potential night out in April. The mum we saw on Saturday replied “Is this for everyone or just the clique?”. When my friend asked her what she meant she said there is a clique that excludes people from social gatherings and also at pick up and drop off as well.

Now We are in our 4th year of schooling these kids, and personally think it’s fine to not shout “roll up roll up come for a chat” in the playground or in ie every last person to every single gathering a few of us have. It’s fine to have made friends, and it seems the people who’ve made friends are the ones who’ve made the effort.

This mum NEVER approaches us to say hello, and has never made a real effort since reception. I don’t think it’s fair to say we are a clique when actually we are just friends who have consistently made the effort with each other.

AIBU to think our group of six have the right to hang out without inviting everyone in the class because a friendship has been formed separately as adults, rather than only being linked through our children?

Yes my friend does that and also whether it’s drinks/lunch etc. loads of people vote but not half of them come

You're being totally ridiculous to be honest. They've tried to organise larger events many times.

Trying to shame people because they went out with 6 friends and saying people have "narrow mindsets" is really weird! Stop it.

OMG that would make things worse 😂 it’s handy for things like lost uniform and there’s always someone reminding people when to bring £1 in

Why is it up to us six to “act inclusively” of the 50 mums in the year group? If people want to be included can’t they just act like grown ups and join in? Rather than have people beg them to come for drinks?

No

Is there something wrong with being an extrovert?

Do you not think that the class whatsapp group, where arrangements have been made for nights out 4 times a year for several years covers that?

For how many years would you invite people out if they never came and never invited you to anything?

Of course its not cliquey - the woman you encountered while out hadn't invited the rest of you along.
it's only natural that you'd end up making friends with some people not others - extremely good of the one stalwart to keep on plugging with group invites, but why would you only see people you've made friendships with once every three months or so.

Yes i do eye roll at the MN threads of “No one speaks to me in the playground I stand on my own I’m sooo left out”. Well speak to people then! Friendship forming takes work from everyone, I had to work at it when we moved here, it’s not easy and at times I felt like I was single asking someone on a date by saying “fancy doing something together” but sometimes in order to get what you want it requires a level of discomfort, but with the understand the end product is worth it.

I’ve no time for people who expect things handed to them with no willingness to put the tiniest of effort in

Why do the 6 have to organise everything? I bet within that group there are others who meet up. Are they a clique?
The lesson here is, if you want friends you have to make the effort.
I bet the ones who didn't turn up are the same as people on here who are always looking for a way out of social engagements. You know the 'time for a positive covid test' lot.
Or 'weekends are family time'.
Well, if you keep saying no, soon enough people stop asking.

Because we want to see each other and not other people. When you invite people you aren’t close to it changes the dynamics. You then can’t talk about things your friends know but you don’t want other people to know, it makes giving updates on your life more difficult to people who aren’t “in the know” about what’s been going on with your marriage/puppy/teenager.

Which is why it feels like the bigger nights out are still inclusive and I’d expect a different dynamic

6 people are personal friends in real life and regularly spend time together due to a shared like of each other and interests that is nothing to do with school.

Of course they don't have to invite the other 24 or so mothers in the class. What planet do you live on where no one is allowed to be friends with like minded people without inviting randoms they have nothing in common with and who actively make no effort to be friendly to each other to join them.

Having a child within the same 12 month window does not mean you are automatically friends or have anything in common. No one owes you a special relationship.

No because she’d be put in the class WhatsApp and therefore invited to the wider class night out - that tends to be how it goes and is an excuse to organise a night out to welcome the new mum/s. The 6 friends are not a community group who has to invite new members.

BTW I always approach new mums after getting intel from DS first on who their child is. I always say hello, tell them about the WhatsApp group and shout if they have any questions about the school/processes etc

Obviously I meant extrovert here 🤦🏼‍♀️

You're entitled to have your own group of friends.

I hate people like this woman. Never turn up to anything, never bother to organise anything but then have the cheek to get arsey when other people finally stop bothering.

But why should we have to “be nice”. Why can’t we just meet up with our close friends?

The lesson here is, if you want friends you have to make the effort.

Agreed. I felt like a bit of a Wally the first time I asked a mum if she wanted to go to the cinema just us 2, I thought “OMG she’s gonna think I fancy her” but we got on straight away and I wanted to make friends. Luckily she said yes! Faint heart never won fair lady (or the platonic equivalent) 🤣

Fwiw I think you sound really nice and if I lived near you I’d have loved to join your clique friendship group. 😁

People often seem to slag off extroverts while still expecting us to do the hard yards of approaching them, asking questions, making conversation, inviting people to things, including everyone etc just in case.

friendship forming takes work from everyone, I had to work at it when we moved here, it’s not easy and at times I felt like I was single asking someone on a date by saying “fancy doing something together” but sometimes in order to get what you want it requires a level of discomfort, but with the understand the end product is worth it.

Oh I hear you. We moved literally from one end of the country to the other when my kids were almost 4, and 1.5. I had to make a huge effort to get to know people at the preschool, threw myself into various committees and accepted invitations to events I knew were really not my thing because everyone else was going. It does take sustained effort both ways. Yes you'd sometimes speak to someone and it would go nowhere, but then you meet a really nice person. Still see two of my playgroup mum friends regularly and that was 18 years ago since we moved.

People do not want to put themselves out there. They expect everyone to stand around chatting in a big massive group, and for there to be sentries posted to pull people into the conversation. And then get the hump when people just talk to folk they already know, or speak to a randomer, and start bitching about cliques.

She is a trouble maker.

You are entitled to have a separate WhatsApp group.

I would love to be able to invite someone to the cinema like that, and I'd like to be invited id probably not do it though. Fair play

To the previous poster - are you having a laugh saying they need to book tables with extra seats? How shitty is that to restaurants in the current climate to book large tables on the off chance some people you hardly know will turn up, and how crap for the people that bother to turn up.

I don't know what planet some people live on.

I think you and your group of 6 have done nothing wrong.

Not sure if it’s helpful or not to share a similar story, but I’ve been in a position that reminded me of this. There was a WhatsApp group of about ten of us women from work. We are teachers so don’t see loads of each other in work, staggered lunch breaks/most of us spending lunch time in our classrooms working through etc, but we would chat often on our WhatsApp group. About a third of the group are mums so v busy with their families, another third weren’t hugely social and didn’t like going out too often, and then there was three of us who were always keen to meet up and do things. A lot of our social events (around 6 a year, not overly frequent) we’re pushed by the three of us. And we always found it SO hard to mail plans down as we’d put suggestions out there for activities/dates etc just to be met with non committal responses. We got fed up of flogging what felt like a dead horse, and organically just started hanging out as a three, and we could do this FAR more often, which was really nice. We didn’t think we were doing anything wrong as we were still very active in the WhatsApp chat, but just stopped pushing to arrange events. So then for about six months, nothing happened socially as a group of ten, but the three of us did quite a lot. But then one of the girls from the bigger group (who we didn’t see much socially) confessed to me that a separate group had been made without us, and a few of the girls were really pissed off with us for forming our own clique and not inviting them anymore. I thought this was ridiclous as we had always tried so hard. And after that the friendships never really repaired. But us three are happy and social so 🤷🏻‍♀️

The last whole class meet up we had was SUPER embarrassing. 14 people RSVPd, with 2 dropping out a week before, fair enough. My friend callled the restaurant to tell them. But on the day the 6 of us friends turned up and the other 6 either cancelled with 15 minutes or less to go, cancelled 10 minutes AFTER the table was booked for or just didn’t show. I took the lead and apologised profusely to the manager for the fact only half of us showed up they really didn’t seem very impressed as they’d turned tables away that night because of us.

Your only mistake was to continue the invitations after that.

My friend who organises everything (for her sins bless her) contemplated saying in the group it’s important people let us know if they can’t turn up as it affected a much loved local business but decided against in the end and this time suggested somewhere that charges a deposit per person. I think all restaurants should do this TBH.

I struggle with the difference between a clique and a friendship group, TBH. If you have a group of friends, why do you HAVE to be open to/proactive about others joining? Being polite to others, I get — so if you’re all in the playground, and there’s someone standing on their own, I’d absolutely say hello — but that doesn’t mean I’d invite them to our next wine night or whatever it might be. I guess if I got to know them over time, I might suggest it to the rest of the group — but no one has an automatic right to join a friendship group…

My DC are at secondary now but at primary, I had a group of friends I’d chat to at drop off/pick up, and I’d see them outside of school. We’re still friends now although all our DC are at different schools. There were several other, similar friendship groups that existed. And I’d say hello to people who weren’t in my immediate friendship group, and vice versa. We’d also arrange — and attend —whole class get togethers. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.