To be absolutely fed up with the Scottish hatred in sport re England?

[AuntyMabelandPippin]

We're English, living in Scotland for a very long time. It's always been noticeable, but we're in a place where there's a lot of English people, so we don't see it as much. However, we were out with a Scottish friend a week or so ago , she had a few drinks and made a crack about English people, and I was really cross, as we try really hard to support Scots sports as much as we can. I've seen four posts today on Facebook all wishing France well in the Six Nations, and one particularly awful one which was sending this joke:

What happened 300 years ago, out of interest?

The women's football team 'brought it home' though didnt they? 😉😉

We watched Eng v France in an Irish pub full of Bleu supporters 🤣
Didn’t even mind the English winning in the end as it makes an Irish 6 nations title all the more likely. Allez les Bleu! C’mon Ireland!!!!

Not sure if it's a reference to the Act of Union in 1707 or the first Jacobite Rebellion in 1715.

Not all of “us”

Fecking hell, that’s a bit niche in the ABE sports discussion!!!!

West Briton 🤣

It's extremely irritating when we're "expected" to support England. The Welsh don't ask us Scots to, or just assume that we would. Nor the Irish, or anyone else.

England just seems to expect us all to fall in line behind them. They're like Americans in that sense.

I used to be neutral, if Scotland wasn't playing. But after seeing prats like Piers Morgan, Farage, Clarkson etc, bemoaning the lack of support from us, for the England team, I became frustrated enough to become ABE, just to get my own back, in my own small way. Why on earth am I expected to back a foreign team? It's the height of arrogance.

The attitude by many, but not all, is they see Scotland as something comparable to Yorkshire, as if we're a part of England. It's infuriating. And rather than uniting the union, like some might want to do, it just pushes us apart. The UK is four countries in a union. Not England and company.

They care that we don't support them. I've seen countless posts like this. I've seen piers Morgan attack Lorraine Kelly, and Scots in general for not supporting England. I see it in Daily Heil and Torygraph rags, every time there's a sports event. So, what seems to be suggested here, is that the English ignore Scots, as long as we fall in line behind our superiors. If we don't, they complain about it and call us racists.

I don’t think the English expect you to support us as if you’re just an extension of England, but because it would be nice to have your support in the same way we support you over any other country outside of the UK. We’re in a union with you. For all of our differences we have an awful lot of shared history (admittedly, most of it at each other’s throats after an argument usually started by the English, but let’s not dwell on that too much). We don’t just see you as a random foreign country. More like a sibling. Very different, very individual in our own ways, regularly bickering but connected whether we like it or not.

Personally, I’m not particularly bothered about the dislike of the English. I’m married to a Welshman and as much as it would be nice to hear him and my in-laws cheering on the English, I don’t think I’d trade it for the sense of satisfaction when England beats Wales at Rugby and they all go very, very quiet. Or when they joke about how crap we are at men’s football and that it’s never ‘coming home’ and I’m able to sweetly ask them if it irritates them that, however crap England are, we almost always get further in football than Wales does.

Last time I checked we were all part of the United Kingdom. I’m British and love it. I’ll support any and all of the home nations.

Except a lot do just look at other countries in Britain, as part of "their" country. For instance, when the issue of political independence comes up, I've heard some English commenters say they hate the Scots for trying to split up "their country". No one's trying to split up England.

I'd never look at England as part of my country, because it isn't. We're in a political union with three other countries, but that doesn't make those countries part of mine.

And being part of a political union wouldn't shape what teams I support. When we were in the EU, I didn't preference EU teams over non-EU teams. I have always been neutral, outside of Scotland games. I have no ties to England, so I have no reason to root for them.

Ideally, I'd be neutral, but its that entitlement expressed above, and also the bias of the "British" media and "British" brands (chocolate bars, Walkers, Tescos, etc) and the main royals, like Charles and William, etc, that the English team, and only the England team, it's enough to put many of us off.

The same people who claim to be British, become very English all of a sudden.
I don't recall ever seeing the Welsh flag on a Mars bar, even when they qualified for the World Cup a few years ago.

As far as individuals go, I treat everyone with respect, regardless of their nationality, unless they're a-holes (Scottish, or non-Scottish).

Not all of us are happy to be in the union. Polls right now, show the majority of Scots would leave it. So the fact that we're in a political union isn't going to be a convincing argument for most Scots to support another team in the union.

That said, many unionists in Scotland also cheer for the England team's opposition. You'll have to ask them why.

Similarly, I don't understand why some Scots, who have made England their home, also want England to lose their games.

I've always been of the view that if you move to another country, you be at least a little respectful. Even if you can't bring yourself to support their football team, being publicly opposed to them just doesn't feel right to me.

I'm originally from Northern Ireland our family was/is very much into sports. Growing up we supported England as a national team, because our DF was based there a lot.

Let's be honest, lots of people love to see England lose! I do understand it with respect to football (our travelling fans are the worst I've seen, and that's several away games over 30 years, except for maybe Russians), but that is really not the case with other sports, specifically rugby.

It doesn't bother me. I like to see Scotland doing well in rugby these days, because they've been poor for a long time. I think it would be nice to see Wales do better too.

We’re coming at it from very different angles though. You think of it as nothing more than a political union, akin to the EU, which you’d quite like to leave and you feel no more ties to us than some random country elsewhere in the world. Lots of us think it would be very sad to see you go and feel very connected to Scotland.

The same people who claim to be British, become very English all of a sudden. I don't recall ever seeing the Welsh flag on a Mars bar, even when they qualified for the World Cup a few years ago Well no, because Mars is an English company and England were playing in that competition. Do Irn Bru or Tunnocks or Aviva have English flags when we qualify? Do Admiral or Redrow have English flags? Of course not! But when Wales got further than us, there were Welsh flags everywhere in our part of England; I had them pointed out to me on a daily basis.

"Mars is an English company". Fair enough, if that's how they define themselves. I hadn't considered that. But that's just one example. Lots of Supermarkets, TV shows and so on do it too. Which, if they want to come out as "English", rather than "British", that's fine.

Are Tesco and ASDA British supermarkets, or just English? They can't be both.

However, when it's on TV news and shows like GMTV and The Wright Stuff, I expect more impartiality. They're funded by British TV license payers, not just English. There's a very clear "we" "they" thing going on when it comes to discussions around sport. If they're a British/UK show, who is "they" when they're talking about a Scottish team? And who is "we"?

Generally though, I'm fine with it because it just clarifies how we're seen, and supports my own views. I only bring it up in discussions like this to highlight the bias.

"We’re coming at it from very different angles though. You think of it as nothing more than a political union"

That is what it is. England, Scotland and Wales, and Northern Ireland, in a union. My nationality is Scottish. My country's also part of a political union, and on an island shared with two other countries.

I find all this “ah it’s just banter” stuff really puzzling. Is that like the sexist bullshit we’ve all had to put up with that’s dismissed as “just banter”? Or a racist joke that’s “just banter”? Is it that kind of “just banter”?

"Mars is an English company". Fair enough, if that's how they define themselves. I hadn't considered that. But that's just one example. Lots of Supermarkets, TV shows and so on do it too. Which, if they want to come out as "English", rather than "British", that's fine. To be fair, they may not consider themselves English over British. I don’t know how they define themselves. Why do they have to choose?

Are Tesco and ASDA British supermarkets, or just English? They can't be both. I don’t know their origins, but why not? Just as Scottish companies are proudly Scottish but don’t restrict their trading to north of Newcastle. They’re equally happy to be British when they’re trading down here and in Wales and NI. And they are thought of as British, with Scottish origin. We can still be different nations, with different identities and companies, that come together to be something bigger.

However, when it's on TV news and shows like GMTV and The Wright Stuff, I expect more impartiality. They're funded by British TV license payers, not just English. There's a very clear "we" "they" thing going on when it comes to discussions around sport. If they're a British/UK show, who is "they" when they're talking about a Scottish team? And who is "we"? Yeah, totally fair point. There absolutely should be a better representation in presenters from all countries in the UK on national shows and equal emphasis on all teams. The best shot ever was the glee of Jonathan Davies and we need more of this.
https://i2-prod.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article8613878.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/01Jiffy-Pic.jpg

Generally though, I'm fine with it because it just clarifies how we're seen, and supports my own views. I only bring it up in discussions like this to highlight the bias I feel sad that you feel you’re seen like that.

"We’re coming at it from very different angles though. You think of it as nothing more than a political union"
That is what it is. England, Scotland and Wales, and Northern Ireland, in a union. My nationality is Scottish. My country's also part of a political union, and on an island shared with two other countries. I disagree that’s all it is. I’m very happy to be English; it’s my nationality and we have an identity which is as distinct and as separate as yours. But together with Wales and Northern Ireland, I think we are the best place in the world. And if you, Wales or Northern Ireland left, it would leave a big hole.

Sorry, I forgot to clear your post and can’t edit mine to remove it!

To be fair, they may not consider themselves English over British. I don’t know how they define themselves. Why do they have to choose?

If an organisation, or someone speaking on the behalf of one, expressing a preference or giving special treatment to just one member of a group, rather than staying neutral or supporting all, it is going to cause resentment, and a feeling of detachment in the rest of the group. And this is amplified when it's happening across the board. In tabloids, on TV, by government officials, by supermarkets and brands.

You could say this only happens because England's the most successful team. But this is happening all the time, even when Scotland and Wales are active in competitions. It happens in British wide weather reports, in supermarkets in Scotland, with "congratulations to England, from Tescos" and England flag bunting, and England players posters in the windows and such. I've never seen that for Scotland, in England. Nor would I expect to see it.

And like I said, it really just lifts up the British mask to show how to establishment really sees things.

It's systemic. Like "Britain's" Got Talent only reviewing contestants from across England, for the first several years, and only including Scotland when they were called out on it.

"I don’t know their origins, but why not? Just as Scottish companies are proudly Scottish but don’t restrict their trading to north of Newcastle. "

If they're explicitly British companies, as mentioned above, but only backing one national team, they're expressing a preference.

If they're Scottish, Welsh or English, that's fine. But then they shouldn't present themselves as a British brand, only to act as a Scottish/English/Welsh one when it suits them. Especially when it's only done for one, rather than for all of them.

If Tesco claims to be British, but only goes all out for England, and none of the other teams, then don't complain when people call it out as English, and feel disconnected from it.

A lot of this could be resolved, but there doesn't seem to be an appetite to do so.

I don't begrudge English fans getting behind their team, at all, Just the English defaultism by British media, gov't, and companies.

Maybe it's something that you are only really aware of, when you're not English, whilst subject to British media and British companies, claiming to represent all of us.

I don't begrudge English fans getting behind their team, at all, Just the English defaultism by British media, gov't, and companies.

This is purely down to there being way more people in England than Northern Ireland Scotland and Wales.

When you are looking into anything media, marketing, and business wise you are always looking at the largest audience. Similarly ministers are always looking to the largest vote share.

Same with the South East England, a lot of people dislike the South East because it's perceived they get the best of everything, it's just more populous. It does get the lions share of the money, it also gets the lions share of the added pressures of being populous too.

There needs to be a fairer split across the UK and more businesses operating across the board rather than just lumping everything into the SE England. I live in the South East but I'm not from here so I see both sides.

It depends on the person. For some it's banter. Not really for me. Mine's more of a response to some expressions of entitlement and arrogance from (some) English people. Both in the media, and in normal social media posts like this.

I was neutral until around 10-15 years ago. Then I started getting fed up with the condescending "we support you, you should support us!" posts. And those comments started getting mean and silly, with comments about how crap our team is, and how we'd be living in caves without English taxes, etc.

However, let's not compare it to racism and sexism. It's not the same thing. If you said you disliked Scotland, I wouldn't think it had anything to do with our ethnicity, but probably the government, or the climate, or maybe the general attitude of the people there (which isn't tied to ethnicity).

Mars is an American company.

It’s because, in general, the English have a superiority complex. They’re massively arrogant. They expect everyone to support and respect them but don’t afford others the same curtesy so there is animosity there. It’s the same all over Europe. Holiday destinations dread English tourists because of their rowdiness and rudeness towards others, especially pissed up middle aged men as the worst culprits.

"This is purely down to there being way more people in England than Northern Ireland Scotland and Wales."

It is true that England is the most populous country in the union, but this doesn't excuse them from taking a preference. It's either British, or it's just English. If we were talking about how many people the BBC employed, I would have no issue if the staff employed there were 85% English. Or if most shows were set in the south of England, etc.

But when they're on the air, they're purporting to be representing Great Britain, not just England. When "our team" "our side" "us" is in reference to the English team, and "they" "the Scots", "them" is in reference to other British teams, I think it's inappropriate.

And even if they were just catering to the largest group in the union, then the resentment of feeling ignored and excluded by the rest of the union, would still be justified. Especially when we have to pay for a TV license too, yet referred to as a "them".

Having our own media would help some. But unfortunately, we don't have the powers and the budget allocated to create our own national media.

I fully agree with your last paragraph.

You make some fair points.

I'd suggest that there is a certain amount of reliance on local channels to cover things like sport. I agree though there is too much us v. them in the UK