For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

Bloody brass neck of him in your update OP - sneaking through the ladies changing room to get access to the pool. Outrageous behaviour! I think he must be considered to be an outlier. What a prick.

Yes I hated it when mums took older boys in or were just following sisters and mums into the ladies, it has stopped since all the e-mails. It was mostly as my daughter of the same age as them absolutely doesn't want to change in front of them. In years 5 and 6 in school so age 9 and up the boys and girls change in separate classes after PE. I don't have sons and I do wonder how I'd feel sending them into male toilets and changing rooms alone at age 9 but I know I wouldn't be taking them into the ladies as it wouldn't be fair on any girls in there. Maybe I'd get their dad to go with them, maybe I'd make sure they were there when other families were there or maybe I'd wait right outside or something.

I don’t know if that’s because he was planning to return to the ladies to get changed afterwards (giving the benefit of the doubt but based on the evidence that’s the most likely theory) or because it’s easier to get to the pool through the ladies then the men’s without being spotted by staff and he thought once he was in the pool he wouldn’t be asked to leave, I suspect a combination of both.

I don’t know how he didn’t think the staff member wouldn’t notice him when he made his presence well known in the pool!

When asked to leave the pool he made a few comments along the lines of how mean it would be to ask his little girl to leave when she was so happy and having so much fun, possibly the performance was meant to be a guilt trip.

Who knows? I’m just guessing on all this.

The one thing I’m most grateful for was that he didn’t keep pushing the issue about using the ladies changing room, I wasn’t comfortable at all confronting him because I am usually scared of confrontation. I know there was a staff member there but there is only one member on at night and they are usually busy starting to prepare to close and aren’t always in the same place.

I agree completely, OP and thanks for the update. As you said you've been busy so maybe haven't read the entire thread but most people do agree with you, yes.

You did right.

the hotel was wrong for not providing a family cubicle but in this case it would have been acceptable for him to quickly use the disabled by first checking nobody was going to need it. Or he could use the men’s by first checking the men were covered up and taking her to a cubicle in there. It’s not acceptable that he thought he could walk in on naked women (and presumably naked girls if the classes were open to age 16 or if parents or other kids had broke the swim time rules too).

In the men's changing area. He is with her. She will be safe - though he should probably respect her dignity and not let her be naked in front of strange men. Deploying a towel is one option, using the cubicle is another.

Boys have been sexually assaulted in mens toilets before.
So it's hardly a stretch to imagine the risk in communal changing rooms.

What if it was the same scenario but a dad with a little boy rather than girl? You could equally use the argument about ‘safeguarding from pedophiles’ for the man to take the little boy with him into the women’s changing area. But obviously that would be silly.

if it’s okay for a dad to take a little boy and get him changed/dressed in the men’s then I don’t see why he can’t do the same with a girl. As long as he protects dignity when getting changed etc but you would expect that with children of each gender.

@fratellia if that was directed at me, nobody is going to harm a child of any sex while they are with their Dad.

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding with some posters about the threat men potentially pose to women, compared with the threat women could potentially pose to women. I’m not sure if it’s wilful or… either way, it’s depressing.

No not directed at you. 🙂
I’m just curious whether those arguing that the girl should be taken into the ladies to ‘safeguard her from pedophiles’ would feel the same if the man in question was with a little boy rather than girl. I think that argument could be equally applied!

I completely agree that any child will be fine going into a changing room with their dad.

It's different, and I wouldn't have thought that needed spelling out. But if you really can't see/don't want to accept that seeing naked strangers could be upsetting for a small child, we're just going to have to agree to differ.

@fratellia thanks 😊

The whole anyone over age 8 needs to be in a changing room for their own sex is completely stupid. So pedophiles are a risk to seven year old boys but an eight year old just has to deal with this potential danger. As a single mum to a now adult boy this was always a concern to me. (I mentioned up post that a boy was SA in a McDonald's toilet within two minutes from where I was living) I know hope that sort of terrible situation is rare but why risk it.
Thankfully the swimming in my area has open plan unisex changing room and everyone uses a cubicle.
I am all for women having their own space but if the choice is me or a little girl/boy then I choose the safety of children every single time.
What should really happen is that every establishment that has changing rooms and toilets should legally provide a space for a single dad to take his little girl and a single mum to take her little boy.
I have a new nephew and in no world in eight years times if he is alone with me and nature calls will I be sending him into a man's cubicle block on his own.

It's pretty simple.

Grown men should not be in changing rooms where there are women and girls in vulnerable naked states. THATS IT.

I would have no issue at all with an 8 year old boy being brought in to women's bathrooms or changing rooms if there was no other option. He's a child and should be protected.

Except it's not, because believe or not you are not in charge of the world.

It’s only upsetting if the child has been taught that bodies are somehow wrong. Which is wrong.

And, thank goodness, neither are you.

It's wrong for some naked bodies to be seen by youngsters - I'm thinking strange man in supermarket toilet - yes some bodies kids should be very fearful of

Boys are at risk from men ie unable to fight them off physically til at least the age of 15/16. Should they be in the women's too "just in case"?

But that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about naked bodies in a swimming pool changing room. A perfectly normal, indeed essential, part of going swimming.

Is everyone on glue today?

@Porcuporpoise nobody is saying into teens.

I personally think 10 would be a more reasonable cut off, 8 just seems very young.
It's crazy on another thread it's 66% think it's unreasonable to leave a 7yo outside a school for a few minutes incase she doesn't make it into school. Yet 8yo boys are expected to look after themselves in a Male changing room.

A 10yo is more able to under walk away, run, shout if you feel threatened a 8 yo isn't. They are also more able to understand risks.

That's a good point. If the men's room is supposedly full of so many shady people and such a den of depravity as some seem to make it out to be then a child of either sex(even if accompanied by a parent) shouldn't go in.

@NoGwenItsABoxingDayTrifle

I'll day it again.

It is not appropriate for grown men to be in spaces where women and female children are vulnerable and naked. I don't need to be 'in charge of the world' to state this. Thankfully we have laws to protect this and some of us will continue to fight for them.

I don't know what your weird agenda is but it sounds pretty perverted to not respect this.