For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

I’ve explained my thoughts on this. I think I’m entitled to feel the way I do, I won’t be the only one.

Everyone says that the cut off for using the opposite sex changing room is 8, but this inevitably won’t be appropriate for every child. Or does something transformative happen overnight before a child’s 8th birthday?

We are fairly relaxed about nudity at home, but I think it should be child-led and we shouldn’t be forcing children into situations that they might not be comfortable with. As I’ve said previously, my son is becoming quite self-concious at the young age of 6 and there certainly isn’t anything we’ve done to encourage it. Maybe it’s the influence of school, I don’t know.

I do agree that boys are entitled to privacy from women too, absolutely, but we all know that statistically one is more likely to come across a male sexual deviant than a female.

In the men’s? Same place he’d get his son changed if he had a son.

Not in an open plan female changing room

For heaven’s sake, a man can’t use a female changing room with communal showers. The nerve of the man! He had the choice of his own room, the accessible changing room if no one present was about to use it, or the cubicle in the men’s room, having made sure there were no naked men around when bringing her in and out. Arguably she was also old enough to use a hotel communal changing room on her own.
He was taking the piss. Good for you speaking up OP.

You actually haven't explained what you think could potentially happen to a girl in the men's that wouldn't happen to a boy in the women's.

Well it came across as extremely targeted to me! She repeatedly referenced myself and my DH. Kind of wish I hadn’t reported the post now as then I could reference it!

I just get fed up of it - we can be having a sensible, reasoned discussion about a topic and then someone just bulldozes in throwing insults around. Just really lowers the tone and detracts from the actual debate. Seems to be one on every thread these days.

This is a good point. If it’s potentially ‘unsafe’ for her to go with him into the men’s then it would also be potentially unsafe for a little boy to go into the men’s with his dad 🤷‍♀️

I am a Dad who takes two daughters (aged seven and four) swimming every week.

It would never occur to me not to use the men's locker room. The pool we use at the moment is a dedicated swimming club and when we're there there are dozens of kids having classes. The rule is that if the kids need adult help then they use the locker room for the gender of the adult, but there's nowhere in them you could actually get changed apart from the individual cubicles anyway.

Years ago we used the pool at a multi-use gym facility, and the men's locker room was open plan, no cubicles. It's really not beyond the wit of man (or at least this one at any rate) to find a discreet corner to dry the kids off and dress them while minimising contact with other men. Both my girls know that naked men exist and what they look like so they're not bothered, and they know not to stare because I, you know, parent them. As for the idea that the other men would somehow try to ogle, abuse or intimidate them while I'm right there, that's bonkers.

On the other hand, the most recent pool we used before the present one, which was a private business which only did kids lessons, nothing else, in its own pool, insisted that kids change the the locker room appropriate to their own gender, and adults went in with them. Most kids were under six but every so often there would be an older one of ten or eleven and were really quite uncomfortable. Funnily enough, the business went bust.

I think your point about performative nudity is fair, but the trouble is that's also often in the eye of the beholder. I don't do a towel dance to cover myself and I don't use the private cubicle at the gym even if it's free. I think that's just me getting changed as quickly as I can and considerately leaving the cubicle for those who really want it, but it might look performative to others. There's a woman at my gym, probably in her 70s, who dries her hair using the hair dryer while only wearing her knickers - I guess that is pretty performative but I also kind of admire her!

It is always women that have to budge up, cope, be nice! Fuck tgat! As a victim of sexual assault I do not want to be in a changing room with an adult male. A person with a penis should not be in a women’s changing room unless it’s a child accompanied by their mother.

I said this to my brother and he threw out the ‘transitioning person’ argument. I just said ‘not women’s problem! They have to deal with it or campaign themselves as we’ve done enough fighting for women not for men to just trample over us! ‘

If I had been in that room and he walked in I would have panicked and probably caused a scene by screaming in his stupid face to get to fuck away from me! I was raped, beaten and almost died at the hands of an entitled man. This is why a safe women’s space is important.

Yes in the cubicle which would preserve her modesty, and find an appropriate moment to brother through the communal area.

No I don’t think there’s much of a difference in what could happen, just a difference in the likelihood of it.

To all who have responded to this sent very early on in the thread yesterday, my response was to immediately think of the little girl in question. In hindsight I have reflected having seen a lot of great debate on this since. I fully appreciate the argument against it and agree he should think more carefully. Thought I'd say in case anyone else feels the need to respond there is no need - I get the message.

But I have said I would avoid taking my son into the ladies in the same way that I would rather DH didn’t take my daughter into the men’s. So I am applying my views to both sexes.

YANBU at all. Well done for speaking out. Your friend is nuts for going against you. The man, as you say, was staying at the hotel so had the option of going to his room after swimming. He shouldn't have been swimming with a child during adult swim times. He certainly shouldn't have gone in the ladies changing rooms where it's mostly open plan. There is a wider problem of gender as regards men or women with children at sports centres. At my gym, also open plan for changing, a woman came in the ladies' changing rooms with a young girl and her much older brother. Felt really uncomfortable. I complained and the staff said a child should be 8 or younger to be in a changing room of the opposite sex and agreed that this one looked quite a bit older. The woman was furious to be asked to leave. We need better facilities.

As I said, I can see why you read it that way.

The problem with chat rooms is the writer tends to write quickly and not think about how what they write may be interpreted in a way that didn't intend and the reader tends to read quickly and not think did the writer mean this is a different way to the reader's interpretation.

By that logic, if it’s unsafe/uncomfortable for the several women in the female changing room to have one man in there, surely it’s unsafe/uncomfortable for one little girl to be in the male changing room with lots of men.

I don’t think he should have used the female changing room, but equally it’s understandable he didn’t want his daughter in the open plan male changing room. I think the best solution would have been to use the accessible changing room.

Mum used to tell us (sister and l) that bodies were beautiful but beware of bad people. As l have said up thread, l couldn’t care less who sees me naked, with the exception perhaps of sniggering school boys. But womens’ space is their space.

For a father of a young child their place is not in a female changing room. A unisex family changing area for those with young children, with floor to ceiling cubicles, of realistic size for dressing/undressing children, and locks on the door.

Yes but you have also stated that it is a much bigger safeguarding issue for girls in the men's than fly boys in the women's. That's what I'm asking about.

When I was a little kid in the 80s, my dad used to take me swimming, and get me changed in the men's changing room.

I remember a bloke once saying 'she's a girl, she's not supposed to be in here', and my dad replied that what is he supposed to do then, as I can't go in the ladies on my own. The bloke didn't have an answer.

It wasn't the best experience I've ever had, and I wouldn't want my girls to be subjected to that, but I'm not emotionally scarred, and my dad wouldn't have dreamed of trying to go in the ladies changing room.

Sounds like the bloke was being a dick, and deliberately difficult. He had a room at the hotel, absolutely no need at all to try to go in the ladies changing rooms with his daughter.

So what do you think is more likely to happen to a girl in the men's whose father is there with her than to a boy in the women's with his mother there?

no one would need to be dripping wet. They could towel off at the side of the pool and put robes on. They'd be damp at worst.

OP YANBU. No man should be in the ladies' changing room. Where he got his daughter changed is not the women's problem.

Hmmm. I think you’re giving a bit too much credit there and her intention was very different, but we’ll agree to disagree!

you called it a unisex disabled changing room
unless he or his dd is disabled they can not use it.

his child is not the OP's problem. She and other women shouldn't have to be uncomfortable to facilitate the child.