A man undressing in front of a woman without her consent is an act of intimidation and control. Men do not acquire consent by identifying as women

[SernieBanders]

How and why has it become anything but voyeurism and control?

What on earth can be done to reverse the madness?

Trans staff should always be given dignified, adequate, separate changing spaces. Females should never feel cowed, silenced, intimidated into putting up with a man looking at them half naked.

Background.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/why-scots-nurse-sandie-peggie-has-taken-nhs-fife-to-tribunal-over-dr-beth-upton-transgender-dispute-4974664

(Phrase inspired by a tweet from x.com/SonyaDouglas )

You're clearly very angry that women have started standing up for their rights, but I'm afraid you're going to have to get used to it.

Misogynists have always existed, you're nothing new. But much as you might hate it, women also have rights.

Agree with this

The presence of a male in a female changing area is unnecessary and unwise. I understand unisex changing rooms but how does one monitor voyeurism etc? There are presumably at least daily checks of all cubicles for hidden cameras etc? And some women cannot for reasons of trauma, religion or philosophical belief be in any way unclothes or in a vulnerable situation with unknown males present - how does you LA deal with this? Or doesn't it, and such women are excluded by this 'inclusive' policy?
Also, how do they deal with the statitsic that something like 90% of sexual assaults take place in unisex changing rooms? Presumably they have a patrol (a female patrol, naturally)?
Men should be nowhere near women and girls' changing areas.

It's the fury of TRAs with incompliant women that is like the fury of racists when black people started claiming their rights.

Always angry men, furious with anything that doesn't centre them.

We say no we don't consent. And men rage. Threaten and use violence.

Women are being told that hidden cameras/voyeurism are a price we have to pay because not letting men use female changing rooms is cruel and men who want to use female changing rooms are different to other men, as shown by their desire to use the female changing room, and so the concerns we have about men using female changing rooms no longer apply.

Calling Dr Upton 'he' is correct. He is a man. Putting on a frock does not make him a woman. Cutting off his penis wouldn't, either.
There is a thread on this case in Feminism:Sex and Gender board, which discusses the issue raised by Dr Upton. There is no evidence to suggest he is telling the truth about this incident.
There is also, not mentioned at all, the problem of a female patient wanting a female doctor to examine her. If Dr Upton were to do that examination when she has stated she wants a female that would be assault.
Most women have strong opinions on not having men in female changing rooms. It is hardly controversial.
IMO what Sandie Peggie thinks of Mr Trump is irrelevant.

What utter codswollop. And I - and you - know it!

Yup. I am convinced this is why there has been such tremendous pressure over language, and the insistence that we have to use female pronouns and lie about the sex of these men. Because when you describe them correctly as men, the argument for their inclusion in female spaces vanishes.

It's pretending it is exiting X.

The problem of voyeurism and sexual assault would not be addressed. Anyone using the cubicle could set up cameras etc. and unless there is monitoring of exits and entrances it is possible to hide in the cubicle.

I am so sorry that happened to you. And you are right, we are trained to ignore our instincts in some respects. Perhaps not all of us, but many of us.

Even if you are taking drugs etc you do not get to share a changing room with me. Neither hormones nor surgery change someone's sex.

100% every woman who has an opinion on employment rights is a NAZI !!!!! 🙄

Would you like to comment on the substantive issue?

Should an employer be allowed to force a woman to change beside some men but not others?

If so why?

A year ago there was the trial of a voyeur caught filming a 15-year-old girl under a cubicle partition at the LC2 leisure centre in Swansea.

Just one case I happened to read about.

They provide separate cubicles for changing but the men can be right next door to you. I wouldn’t say there’s a patrol, it’s just pool attendants. I’ve not heard of any issues with perverts but no doubt there will have been and will continue to be in the future. I don’t particularly like it and would prefer it to be male/female separate changing but there is privacy to change in separate cubicles, which is what I wondered if this was when I first read the post.

I totally agree with your last point, I have been reading about this case all week, hadn’t heard of it until this post, it’s an absolute disgrace.

There are so many cases of changing room voyeurism, most in mixed sex changing. Ranging from really crude use of their phone to cameras hidden in bags, or even inside the cubicles themselves. And all the kit is cheap on amazon. It's something we are not talking about loudly enough. IMO if you're a woman who uses public spaces/toilets/changing rooms, you may well have been filmed without your knowledge. Why is this stuff for sale? Why isn't it restricted? We all know what it's for.

In some countries it is illegal to sell a phone which will not make a sound when taking photos.

Numerous recent court cases involved serving police.

And there was a London case had 1700 "upskirting" images on one phone which had been collected over a number of weeks

This is better than a lot of the reporting that I've seen.
www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/fife/5179511/nhs-fife-trans-row-tribunal-documents/

Oh this post ticked off so many squares on my bingo card!

People disagreeing with something a transperson does = hatred ✅

Removing trans rights ✅

You've never met a transperson ✅

Reference to Reform/ far right ✅

You're the same as racists ✅

Reference to fascism ✅

Now I only need 'most marginalised and vulnerable'™and 'why are you obsessed with genitals/genital inspections' for a full house 🤞

Quick question - what rights are we attempting to remove from transpeople? Because getting to do what you want regardless of others' needs or wishes, is not a right anyone has or should have. Women exist and are actual people.

Transpeople, well the only ones who endanger people by way of the misrepresentation of their sex, are men.
Men have the same rights no matter what they claim to be, rights are not removed by masquerading as the opposite sex.
It is as if men believe they have assumed rights by masquerading as females.
For me the unisex changing rooms and potential for voyeurism is a rabbit hole - separate changing rooms full stop, or make the men’s changing rooms unisex. Those who wish to get changed alongside men can do so, see how many takers there are.

Again - you don't get it. Its about MALES. Not 'transgender women'. You're too brainwashed that you think an intact male with a cock and nutsack is a third sex.

Its about the MALE SEX.

If they did a survey where they asked people if an entire intact male with cock and balls should be in women and girls intimate safe single sex spaces? Lets be honest here - we BOTH know what the answer would be.

@Grammarnut

So this person wanted to examine a female?

Yes🙄, I could explain why there are some issues in JKs logic towards Trans Men. And I don't agree with what happened in this thread, I would not accept a trans man in the changing room. But there are too many people on this thread that can be described as self important (know it all), including you.😘

Why bother posting then?

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 20:49

What behaviour?
The bullying which went along with the original complaint, which was part of what she was suspended for initially.

Tell me, have you any lived experience as a human being?