A man undressing in front of a woman without her consent is an act of intimidation and control. Men do not acquire consent by identifying as women

[SernieBanders]

How and why has it become anything but voyeurism and control?

What on earth can be done to reverse the madness?

Trans staff should always be given dignified, adequate, separate changing spaces. Females should never feel cowed, silenced, intimidated into putting up with a man looking at them half naked.

Background.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/why-scots-nurse-sandie-peggie-has-taken-nhs-fife-to-tribunal-over-dr-beth-upton-transgender-dispute-4974664

(Phrase inspired by a tweet from x.com/SonyaDouglas )

So women with strong opinions can't be victims, @BoredZelda ? What, she isn't 'meek and mild' and speaking in a 'soft voice' enough for you? You can't see your own toxic misogyny there can you?

And yes, she sought to be allowed to not lie under oath in court and mis-sex a male who already mis-sexes/misgenders himself.

He by bullying and intimidating a woman is getting the attention he is after, and hurting a woman which he would be getting off on.

You are so very, very deeply naive.

It doesn't include 'a vast range of things' Those are all rapes and sexual assaults. And they represent the absolute tip of the enormous iceberg that is male sexual violence against women,.as we know that the vast majority of assaults aren't reported.

The government have acknowledged the epidemic of male sexual violence against women, the police have acknowledged that if misogyny was made a hate crime they wouldn't be able to police it as there's so much.How can you possibly be this ill informed?

We don't 'limit our lives needlessly' and only an extremely privileged victim blaming ignoramus would think that we do.

https://x.com/laraee_brown/status/1887839672568541346?s=46&t=kS1Jlgo9qmN1IdMmSHL7UA

Read this, Uptons notes.

Sandie removed herself from the changing room as she was uncomfortable....deemed unacceptable by Dr Upton.

He wanted to force women to share with him clearly.

Disgraceful.

Wow, you're really comparing a Muslim's prayer breaks, that affect no one, to a male bullying a woman and watching women undress?

I feel embarrassed for you that you had to stretch that far. Just to defend a male predator in an intimate female only change room.

Yet no other 'ways' allow a male an excuse to see women and girls naked in a change room, does it.

Its relevant because he is a male entering a female only space.

What is it that you don't understand about this? Its central to the entire thing.

This man not only undressed in the women's changing rooms every shift, he put in formal complaints about Sandie Peggie because she left the room. He clearly feels he has a divine right to compel women to watch him strip and also to strip off themselves in front of him. And NHS managers decided he was the victim 🤦‍♀️.

One piece of good news that has come out of this awful case is that SP's father died on 11th January (so she's taking on the tribunal while recently bereaved) and Mumsnetters have en masse donated to the charity fundraiser in his name. It's now over £9k of small individual donations all for a tiny charity, the Scottish Society for Rheumatology alexander-herschell-bell.muchloved.com

Trying not to get a bit tearful here. Well done you Mumsnetters.

Yep, the misogyny and predatory attitude is clear for all to see. Suggesting females are 'salivating' over a male predator is as evil, vile, and deeply misogynistic as anything. Its a misogynistic and predatory attitude from that poster. Very, very sick to say 'salivating' in the context of what the issue is, and reveals their true mindset.

What 'behaviour' is that? Not speaking in a soft voice? Speaking up at all? Protesting? Saying NO to (clearly) male predator? That she didn't just put up with it and take it is what really gets to you, isn't it. You think she should have rolled over and taken it in silence. Go on, say it. That's what you really mean.

Christ you would have been abusing the suffragettes too. They refused to be silent and refused to not protest, they stood up for their rights. Women picketed places, I bet you would have considered that 'bullying'. You would have really HATED them.

Is....what? Are you able to communicate above the level of a 9 year old?

This is classic gaslighting and DARVO. Saying NO to a male predator is not 'bullying'. 🙄 The male was bullying the woman by repeatedly violating her boundaries. That, is classic bullying. And harassment.

As a compass points North so does the finger of blame point towards women. It's ALWAYS our fault. ALWAYS for us to change OUR behaviour and NEVER for males to look at themselves and evaluate their behaviour.

And that, right there, is male entitlement and Male Pattern Thought process. Males centre themselves and don't care about the woman. Women sacrifice ourselves. Which proves this male remains a male in thought process and deed.

Locally two 9 year old girls out on a public road minding their own business were flashed by a man who stopped his car and called them over. That's a dull detail statistic as it was reported and locals sent BOTLO messages electronicly.

They being friendly assumed that the man was looking for directions. Both girls have brothers around the same age so have seen naked male bodies before. They were too young to fully understand his motivation, so it was more embarrassment than fear and not likely to result in life long trama.

One of the mums is a member of your "many women see all men as a threat" group because she called into the home of a 70 year old women "because I see you out walking evey day" and I was not sure anyone told you.

It would be great if woman stopped the blame game of Not My Nigel and accept that all men including her Nigel are a threat while the society that she helps create allows any man to cross the lines set in place to protect individual members.

In your ideal tribal settings sexual violence will be managed by controlling up to killing the offender.
the tribe going to deal with the individual the same way they deal with any predator, eg big cats lion etc.
a)set barriers in place to stop offending oppertunities
▪︎ (i) dont allowing cat near human to
▪︎ (ii) kill cat
b) set safeguards to reduce risk of harm
▪︎ (i) stop putting human beside cat to
▪︎ (ii) blame the human for been eaten by cat.

Note by B(ii) the human is dead.

Again, saying NO to a male predator violating female spaces is NOT 'bullying'. The bullying behaviour is the male predator not taking NO for an answer.

But you are still victim-blaming and suggesting Peggie should not have stood up to him.

He also fully expected his employer to punish her for her choice.

Working that the whole way through

She is not consenting
Removes herself from the situation.
He notices her discomfort and her soution and prepares to report to management.
She organises her usage of the service without preventing his and he prepares to report to management.
Management assess and decide he controls her choices.

Its a hospital with informed consent where management tell staff to accept the choice of the service user.

So a female that feels uncomfortable in a male's presence does what we were all taught to do as a child; remove oneself from the presence or situation is now no longer proper safety conscience but is now 'bullying'????

So any female that feels uncomfortable by a male is 'bullying' if she removes herself from the situation that makes her uncomfortabe? Are people (in general) really this fucked up?

Refusing to work with someone IS NOT BULLYING for fuck sake!! What is wrong with you?

You've never heard of Believe Women, have you? You make it quite clear you choose not to believe women, but you choose to believe the male.

Sandie didn't refuse to work with Upton nor did she leave any critically ill patients.

It shows that she is not homophobic, that she accepts her gay daughter and her gay daughter's girlfriend. If she was homophobic she wouldn't. He holds enormous weight.

And just what 'rights' are they?

Does surgery really make a difference, though? All oestrogen does, really, is cause the development of some breast tissue. It doesn't make them women. The idea that it does has been bounced around, but it simply isn't true. Men take oestrogen in an attempt to grow breasts. You can draw your own conclusions as to why a man would want to do that.

A man with breast implants is a man with breast implants. A man taking oestrogen is a man taking oestrogen. If a man loses his penis in an accident or is castrated due to testicular cancer, has he changed sex? Is he now female and should he therefore be in the female changing room? Of course not. He's a man.

A woman who has a hysterectomy isn't male afterwards. She didn't go into the operating theatre female and come out a man.