A man undressing in front of a woman without her consent is an act of intimidation and control. Men do not acquire consent by identifying as women

[SernieBanders]

How and why has it become anything but voyeurism and control?

What on earth can be done to reverse the madness?

Trans staff should always be given dignified, adequate, separate changing spaces. Females should never feel cowed, silenced, intimidated into putting up with a man looking at them half naked.

Background.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/why-scots-nurse-sandie-peggie-has-taken-nhs-fife-to-tribunal-over-dr-beth-upton-transgender-dispute-4974664

(Phrase inspired by a tweet from x.com/SonyaDouglas )

Exactly. How are women meant to deal with this?

Compelled speech, forced to lie, to comply and validate

McCarthy meets Orwell

There is no society where men don't rape women. There is no society where men don't sexually assault women.

Can you give some examples?

1 in 4
women have been subjected to some form of
sexual violence since the age of 16.

798,000 women across England and Wales are raped or sexually assaulted every year.

That’s 1 in 30 women.

And these are the cases that are reported. Terrifies me to think about the true figures.

Who do you think is doing the raping and assaulting @LillyPJ ??

I'm sure there are plenty of societies with different norms around dress, but the idea that this is because the people there exist in beautiful equality where men don't assault women is simply magical thinking.

It has no relationship to reality. No society anywhere, at any point in history, has been free of male VAWG. I find it hard to believe an adult could actually have this level of delusion tbh. It seems very unbelievably naive.

@CheekySnake thanks for that. Years ago I'm sure I saw him on oprah winfrey, saying no is a word that's very important. If someone isn't taking no for an answer why not.
I'm going to get a copy for my girls to read

Male aggression, this time with added lippie and a frock.

YANBU

I have the greatest of sympathy for anyone who feels that they're trapped in the wrong body - it must be hell.

However, if you are a man who has not undergone surgery/are taking the required drugs, you do not get to share a changing area or toilets with me.

No-one is trapped in the wrong body. They may be uncomfortable or unhappy with their body, but people politely pretending they can change sex hasn't helped anyone. Surgery or drugs can't change their sex.

I'm not saying that you can. Your DNA is your DNA and that can't be altered.

But an intact man in a women's changing area is a definite no-no for me.

Unfortunately transitioning doesn't lower sexual assault rates so you are not safer when a man is taking cross sex hormones and has had surgery

I use a mixed sex changing area at my swimming pool as that's all that's on offer - cubicles that don't have doors that reach floor to ceiling. I would much prefer, and it's much safer, to use a women's changing area. Women need single sex spaces.

@LillyPJ I found the witness statement by Maya Forstatter very eloquent and succinct in summarising the relevant nudity issues. Obviously you have had a positive cultural experience of male nudity but statistically it results in a higher risk of problems: https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/signed-Maya-Forstater.WS_.pdf

And it beggars belief that a qualified male Doctor - apparently who was (and is) married to a person called Zoe in Cupar, Angus - believes he is a female.

To reiterate what I have stated before, I would strongly question his ability to rationalise and make decisions in other areas if Brian/Frank thinks he is a woman because he says so and dresses like one. Whatever drugs or GRC or certificate of achievement he may hold, he will never be a woman.

I'd strip absolutely naked if I was put in this position , the trans person would never come in the changing room again!!!

Mainly men. But those figures are misleading because it includes a vast range of things. Don't just believe the headlines; look into the details of the statistics and you'll be surprised how rare it is that women are attacked. We limit our lives needlessly and that's a shame.

I don't see not wanting to strip in front of men as needlessly limiting my life.

I acknowledge you don't mind nudity with the opposite sex, LillyPJ, but you also have to acknowledge other women do mind and we have the right to comfort and dignity too.
It should not be a choice between stripping in the presence of men and not being able to work.

I have said repeatedly on here that I do not think anyone should have to undress in front of someone if they don't want to. It seems to me that many women see all men as a threat, and they just aren't. If women avoid going for a walk alone, going to a pub alone, sitting next to a man on a bus etc. they are needlessly limiting their life. Unfortunately, the big scary headlines are far more eye-catching than the rather dull details of the statistics.

I disagree, based on my experiences. I don't feel safe next to strange men on a bus, or walking in the dark. Too many bad experiences.

Am I afraid of men? No. Am I wary? Yes. I do not trust men I don't know.

Do I appreciate you telling me that my instinctive reaction is on me and I should suppress it? No

Instead of telling women to change their behaviour, tell men and see where it gets you. Namalt. I would never so why should women feel like that. I am not responsible for other men. It is not that bad. You are just scaremongering.

And round and round we go

I'd strip totally naked, that'd serve em right!!!

Got here too late to vote but I totally agree with your opening OP.

Limiting what we do (for example, not walking alone at night) is a factor in reducing attack. So it could be argued that it’s a successful strategy.
Whether we should have to do this or not is another issue.

I have said repeatedly on here that I do not think anyone should have to undress in front of someone if they don't want to.

Ok so keep changing rooms for single sex

It seems to me that many women see all men as a threat, and they just aren't. If women avoid going for a walk alone, going to a pub alone, sitting next to a man on a bus etc. they are needlessly limiting their life. Unfortunately, the big scary headlines are far more eye-catching than the rather dull details of the statistics.

This is unrelated to single sex CR. It's up to women how they feel walking alone or on a bus

It's not really up to anyone else to dismiss

Headlines? These are rape crisis centre statistics.

And yes, it includes a "vast range of things" all of which are disgusting, damaging behaviours towards women.
Committed overwhelmingly by men.

What don't you get?

I don't limit my life, I conduct it with reasonable suspicion towards the section of society that are overwhelmingly more likely to harm me.

A vast range of things?

Explain to me why I should ever be involved in providing sexual sadisfaction to some random without my consent?

And so what if its not " just " the number of women raped.

Police forces etc are doing the research because they can now track data trends which show many offenders who 'attack' = rape start with lesser offences and that offenders who carry out lesser offences continue to offend over a long period of time.

Indecent exposure
Indecent exposure (legally called just 'exposure' and sometimes known as 'flashing') is when someone deliberately exposes their genitals in order to frighten or upset someone else.
Men and women can both commit indecent exposure. It can happen in public or in private.

The employer has an obligation to risk assess if a staff member would be subjected to that behaviour.
So naked and a sex offender
Naked: not zero as they knows that staff may need to remove their underwear.
Sex Offender: not zero as they know they cant rely on "no priors". So its down to Sex Offender + Female or Sex Offender + Male. The solution was Women and Mens changing rooms.

The employer, the male and the female understood why the changing rooms were not mixed sex. The employer and the male made choices and the female is the one putting a limit to her life?

In this case the intent to willy wag is there but saying "I am a woman" makes that ok.

Voyeurism
Voyeurism is when someone gets sexual pleasure from watching, photographing or recording others doing something that's usually private, for example when they're naked or having sex.
Voyeurism is an offence if it is done without the person's permission.
https://www.police.uk/ro/report/rsa/alpha-v1/advice/rape-sexual-assault-and-other-sexual-offences/voyeurism-upskirting/

This is harder to prove than if another employee is getting naked.

So explain my employer should be allowed to create a situation where a male can get off on my being forced to undress beside him?

Explain what my employer would be expected to do if another male employee kept walking into the Womens changing rooms without saying the magic words "I am a woman"?

Explain how my employer would be expected deal with my interactions after that?
Am i allowed to ask that employee to stop?
Am I allowed to demonstrate that I am upset with his actions or that I am not comfortable around him?

Why is it that women are told over and over to accept the risk and to ignore the risk, it happened but it should not have?