A man undressing in front of a woman without her consent is an act of intimidation and control. Men do not acquire consent by identifying as women

[SernieBanders]

How and why has it become anything but voyeurism and control?

What on earth can be done to reverse the madness?

Trans staff should always be given dignified, adequate, separate changing spaces. Females should never feel cowed, silenced, intimidated into putting up with a man looking at them half naked.

Background.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/why-scots-nurse-sandie-peggie-has-taken-nhs-fife-to-tribunal-over-dr-beth-upton-transgender-dispute-4974664

(Phrase inspired by a tweet from x.com/SonyaDouglas )

Although certain breeds are banned and others have to be muzzled in public due to high incidence of past problems

LilyPJ

You will be shocked to find how universal the "she was asking for it" defence is world wide.

That across the world restoring community standing of the family (honor) normally resulted in punishment even murder of the victim so most cultures developed strict public decorum.

A man can genuinely believe he's a woman and still use a female changing room because he enjoys intimidating and controlling the female users. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Believing that he's a woman doesn't stop him using the male changing room, for example, or asking for alternative provision. It doesn't stop him from having awareness of and consideration for the needs of other people.

And the only way that a man can believe that he's genuinely a woman is if he believes that 'woman' is entirely detached from biology. In which case he knows full well that there's a fundamental difference between him and the female users of the female changing room. If 'woman' has no link to biology, then why does it need it's own changing room.

If he actually believes that he's female and there is no difference then he is delusional and needs psychiatric help because he's lost his grip on reality.

very interesting points

yeah the dog argument holds literally zero water...

Dogs?
This is a parent space.

Half decent parents dont allow their child to randomly pet dogs they dont know.

Good parents dont allow their child to randomly pet dogs they dont know nor dogs they know without permission.

And when a dog harms someone its very very rare for it to be a one off instance of agression. The dog owner has failed to train, socialise and correct and ignored the warning signs and told the near misses hes a good boy and would not actually bite.

And you 100% threat assess each dog you meet each time you meet it. The fact that your assessment have had positive end outcome when you dont pet SnappyYappy and do pet Waggie is great.

Decent breeders castrate male dogs which show agression.

And what happens to dogs with a proven bite history?

But yep trust dogs

Shame we can’t do the same to sexually predatory men really

He is a male identifying as trans.

The narrative of a trans woman changing in a woman's changing room skews the argument. He is not a woman, nor any form of woman.

@WhoPutTheBomp

Per his employer: because he said so.

So if he said he was only a man on 'even number' days of the week he should have his access to the female changing room limited to 'odd number' days of the week.

This is why self ID is ridiculous and dangerous. Any random bloke with a full beard, dick and balls can decide to say he’s now a woman and demand access to single sex facilities and the captured organisations bend over backwards to put out these grifters hurty man feelz above some s discomfort and safety.

How the fuck did we get here?

Well the Denton document outlines the strategy, but I still cannot understand how so many fell for it, hook, line and sinker.

Her feelings are not being prioritised over another woman. The doctor is a man. That is a stone cold fact.

Of course the poster knows that. But for some reason has chosen to lie about it.

you mean men?

Just catching up. Lot of posts for what is summed up by NAMALT.

Not all men, but it's always men (NAMBIAM).

Ireland ( the golden child of the Scot government PR team ) and the male child sex abuser.

The Irish documented Self iD legislation has a specific section that ensured that a (male) sex offender could avoid being charged by obtaining a cert but once charged the State would have to pretend that the offender was female.

In the first case of a male offender.
The male failed to inform the Court that he was a legal female untill the he was found guilty and the sentencing hearing was under way.

The male was removed to one of the two Womens Prison and then moved to the other one.

The law says that (female) prisoners can only [edit] be strip-serched by officers of the same sex.

The prisoner complains that he is not being strip-serched by female officers.
The female staff "only" to the top half and the male staff "only" do the bottom half.

He could go to the Court and ask a Judge to instruct female staff to be sexually harrassed in their work place.

The Irish Government know that this (3 violent males so far) is an issue and want to remove the document bit from Self ID and adopt the Scottish model.

sadly it appears so.

I agree - noone should be made to do so.

You misunderstood me. I don't even like dogs much!

I don't care what the trans woman believes. They can believe black is white or that the earth is flat. They're still male and have no place in women's changing rooms. Our focus shouldn't be on the (poor, marginalised) TW but on the unfortunate women required to strip off their clothes and change. They deserve dignity and privacy away from men, whatever those men believe.

Little else you said made sense either, perhaps take a breath and try again?

Tell us again why a woman should be forced to undress in front of a man?

I have already said that I do not think anyone should be forced to undress in front of anyone! I don't need to take a breath, thank you. I am trying to look at this matter objectively and to understand all the arguments. It's obviously not quite as straightforward as some would like to believe and we'll get nowhere by just shouting and not listening.

It is straight forward. Do you believe a female should be forced to undress in front of a man: yes/no?

if no - you support the nurse.

if yes you support men’s wants above women’s needs.

Irrespective of whether Sandie Peggie was heavily menstruating or not, why should womens intimate spaces and privacy be invaded by an entitled man who is clearly deluded and does not respect the rights of women? As a Dr if he cannot come to terms that he is a man and always will be a man, was born a man and will die a man and be dug up in 1000 years time and still be a man, I question his judgment in other areas too.

There's a reason that indecent exposure is a crime. And it's not because we are unused to nudity, it's because men who exhibit their penis to unconsenting women are generally sexual predators.