A man undressing in front of a woman without her consent is an act of intimidation and control. Men do not acquire consent by identifying as women

[SernieBanders]

How and why has it become anything but voyeurism and control?

What on earth can be done to reverse the madness?

Trans staff should always be given dignified, adequate, separate changing spaces. Females should never feel cowed, silenced, intimidated into putting up with a man looking at them half naked.

Background.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/why-scots-nurse-sandie-peggie-has-taken-nhs-fife-to-tribunal-over-dr-beth-upton-transgender-dispute-4974664

(Phrase inspired by a tweet from x.com/SonyaDouglas )

Gah - quoted the wrong post.
heres the relevant one:
Why are you thinking about the genitalia of the people in the changing room with you? I think maybe you’re the one to be concerned about.

That's fine. I'm not keen on stripping off in public either! My comment still stands.

But the point is not just that someone feels uncomfortable looking at a penis - it’s what the presence of a penis represents - lack of safety, lack of control, the possibility of being raped.

It is not transphobic to state that legally and biologically this doctor is male, a man. It's protected speech under the equality act. It's also reality.

FWS court case ruled that transwomen without a GRC are men.

Employers are bound by law to provide single sex spaces for employees.

The nurse had every right to ask that her rights by law were provided by her employer. He had no right to be in the female changing rooms.

As I said, it's a shame that we are so unused to nudity and are trained to associate it with sexual activity, or that men are a threat. Yes, some men are, some dogs bite etc.

You’re just not getting it. 99% of sexual assault is done by someone with a penis.

it’s not the nudity that’s the problem.

it’s the penis.

the penis in a space which could be just one woman and one man. Undressed. Without anyone perhaps coming in to see if everyone is safe.

and not raping anyone.

As I said, it's a shame that we are so unused to nudity and are trained to associate it with sexual activity, or that men are a threat. Yes, some men are, some dogs bite etc.

This is irrelevant. By law the employer must provide single sex spaces. How anyone feels about that does not matter.

And are you really going to go with "not all men"?!🙈🙈

Almost 100% of sexual assaults are carried out by men, with nearly 90% of the victims being female. It's perfectly reasonable to want single sex spaces on that basis.

Good men stay out so bad men stand out - the vast majority of men don’t want shared spaces either.

Can you let us know how women and girls are meant to know which men who chose to invade female spaces are predators and which aren’t? Do they have a sign in their heads?

I know plenty of lovely men whom I'm confident wouldn't harm anyone. I don't want to undress in front of them either.

How someone lives their life is up to them. When they start invading the space of anyone else it becomes that persons business and the person it is being inflicted on has a right to dislike it. I don't want men in female spaces, I don't like children screaming or running up and down in cafes, I don't like dogs wandering around the tables in food spaces. I also don't like hugely overt public displays of affection whatever the sex of the people involved. As a PP said, if you want to quietly live the life you want to live and to be mindful of how that affects others then few will have a problem with it. If you are doing it to get a reaction then you must expect that that reaction may not be positive.

And that's bad enough, but you have a choice to use a sports centre changing room. You don't have a choice to use a changing room at work.

And my point was that it's a shame we are trained to think like that in this country.

It doesn't matter if she likes Trump. It doesn't matter if she's racist, or homophobic, or what her husband posts on his social media, or if she's a nice person.

It doesn't matter if Upton looked at her, or didn't look at her, or took his clothes off, or didn't take his clothes off, or if he's a rapist, or never a rapist, or will be a rapist one day but isn't yet, if he's a voyeur, or not a voyeur, if he's nice, if he's horrible, which political leaders he admires, what he calls himself, or about his feelings.

He is a man, everyone knows this including him, and just like all other men, he should not have been in a female changing room.

The end.

We aren't trained to think it. Many of us have direct personal experience of it. Men rape. I prefer to protect myself from that.

Thats not "training" thats facts. Penises, do raping.

It's not a matter of being trained, it's a matter of instinct and experience.

I take it that where you live, where everyone happily gets naked together, is an earthly paradise when there are no sexual assaults ever anywhere, where men never make inappropriate remarks and never ogle girls and women, and where you would never catch a man staring at a woman's breasts or bum or genitals in your mixed nude spaces.

Must be lovely. Where is it again?

My friend was brutally raped. Who 'trained her to think like that'? The man who raped her? Yes I guess that is a 'shame'? 🙄

That's an interesting point. Some dogs harm or even kill people; most don't. Yet we mainly trust them and even like them, and don't even think about the threat!

Has anyone tried to explain what makes Dr Upton a woman, what with being born male? Please and thank you.

I have already stated that I wouldn't be keen stripping off in public. I live in the UK. I'm saying we are trained to think that way - it's not instinct and in most cases it's not experience.

Being around dogs is a choice people make. Dogs are not permitted in my workplace. So why is this relevant to the case in hand?

That's dreadful of course. But one terrible experience doesn't tell us anything about most men.

Except when it is. Any thoughts on my post above about my friend?

That - is bollocks.

Because we would never leave a young child alone with a dog, certainly not one we did not know well - because that would not be safe and the risk would be too high

just like it's too high a risk to have a strange penis in your private space