A man undressing in front of a woman without her consent is an act of intimidation and control. Men do not acquire consent by identifying as women

[SernieBanders]

How and why has it become anything but voyeurism and control?

What on earth can be done to reverse the madness?

Trans staff should always be given dignified, adequate, separate changing spaces. Females should never feel cowed, silenced, intimidated into putting up with a man looking at them half naked.

Background.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/why-scots-nurse-sandie-peggie-has-taken-nhs-fife-to-tribunal-over-dr-beth-upton-transgender-dispute-4974664

(Phrase inspired by a tweet from x.com/SonyaDouglas )

This news story has made me unapologetically GC but I saw some posts on reddit which said some nonsense like if she is a nurse she should be used to penises.

Does no one understand the concept of consent anymore?!

This is disgustingly transphobic. Shane on you.

The decision was made to disregard the obligation and training the staff, including doctors, to obtain consent.

Why did the employer decide to not apply their safeguarding rules to staff?

Why is it the employer would chaperone the male employee once the the female employee was a service user but would impose a unagreed contractual obligation on her to undressing in the company of the male employee during work hours?

A human male is a he per the rules of written english

Maybe it's not sexual but I will never want to change my clothes in front of someone with male genitalia except my husband. I don't see why anyone should be made to esp in a work setting.

Bingo

Almost👍 clown fish

Well clearly you can’t READ written English because the article states that BETH is a trans WOMAN.

Why are you thinking about the genitalia of the people in the changing room with you? I think maybe you’re the one to be concerned about.

On that basis I should just change my clothes on the beach in front of everyone with female and male genitalia. But no most people here get female friends or relatives to hold up towels..

Even if you think this is silly and I should be able to change my clothes in front of everyone, I don't see why my preferences are secondary to that of men/trans women..am I less of a person because I don't identify as another gender.

Are you serious? This is like saying "why are you concerned about the genitalia of the man flashing you. Maybe you're the problem'".
Men should not get their penises out in front of women who have not consented to seeing them. This is not a complicated concept.

Oooh great

we are at personal insult stage with rude shouting
Into the count down to the flounce

Capital letter wont change the meaning of the word.
The employee is male

The only way to be a transwoman is to be male.

That's literally the meaning of the word.

"Trans" from "transition", meaning change. Except that that is a demonstrable untruth, as it's simply not possible for a human to change from a male into a female.

Not shouting. I would have used italics had they been available. Some words need emphasis and those particular words seemed to keep going over your head. The employee is a 💖✨w✨o✨m✨a✨💖 - better?

I’m not sure if you actually read the article because there was no mention of any penis? Or at what part of the transition this woman was in? The nurse said the doctor “looked male” in her opinion and that she had a receding hairline and an Adam’s Apple. Can hardly be equated to flashing someone. Also, flashing requires malicious intent - this woman literally just wants to get changed and get on with her job without some nurse ogling her.

"This woman"?

This doctor is not a woman. This doctor is male.

The employee is a male adult therefore a boy who has survived to manhood, a man.

Are you going to comment on the substantive issue?

Why did the employer decide to not apply their safeguarding rules to staff?

Why is it the employer would chaperone the male employee once the the female employee was a service user but would impose a unagreed contractual obligation on her to undressing in the company of the male employee during work hours?

So, just to clarify, you REALLY think it’s ok for a man to undress/expose himself without the consent of a woman and warrants hilarity and an eye roll?

Given your previous post re being from a culture where men and women are often in communal settings naked, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Am guessing saunas, hot springs etc. Situations that are normal in your culture and, most importantly, activities that everyone participating in are aware of and consent to.

And absolutely nothing, whatsoever, to do with women being forced to share spaces with men where they feel uncomfortable doing so. Your two emojis are, quite frankly, gross in that context.

In fact, women shouldn’t even have to state that they feel uncomfortable (or any other descriptor that language can throw up). There should be no argument or discussion at all.

The simplest resolution is a third space. Sadly, I don’t have enough breath in me to hold to think that this will archived in my lifetime. And it’s definitely not for want of trying by women.

It shouldn’t matter where in transition a man is. Women should be assured a safe space. How can you not understand that? I’m not going to list the various reasons that females don’t want/need men in certain spaces.

Maybe focus your enthusiasm on pushing for a third space, so that everyone feels safe and no one is forced into situations where they feel uncomfortable.

Conversely, one could argue that you don’t UNDERSTAND English. Here you add the Trans, but in a later post you assert that they are a woman.

They are definitely not a woman (they were born male). You can add all the stars and hearts you want, but it’s not helping your reasoning. It is biologically impossible to change SEX. And women should not be making way for their (supposedly) protected spaces to be perniciously invaded by anyone born with a penis.

Transwomen are men.

You know this as well as anyone. Why are you lying about it?

Because it’s not another woman

its a man

with a penis

the thing men use to rape women with.

No-one can consent to give my rights away against my wishes. That’s not fair or reasonable. That includes my right to female privacy. Biological female privacy.

Dicking about with trendy definitions just doesn’t cut it.

This is such a pathetic gotcha

it does not work to try and cast people who are concerned with privacy as “genital
inspectors”

however hard you try to make it a smear.

it does not wkrk

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly why we should never attach female words to male people.

An excellent example.

👍

"Not shouting. I would have used italics had they been available. Some words need emphasis and those particular words seemed to keep going over your head. The employee is a 💖✨w✨o✨m✨a✨💖 - better?"

The doctor is biologically male.

Well yes that’s exactly right. Alone in a space with a biological male most women have been trained from an early age to be concerned with the potential for a penis to be used as a weapon against them. There’s a huge historical precedent for this weapon being used on women and despite it being illegal in theory, in practice it’s well known to be very difficult to secure a conviction. On trial women’s decisions and lifestyles are trawled over - she was asking for it etc. So all of this comes into play when a woman doesn’t want to get changed in front of a biological male. And the employer should not insist that a biological woman has to.