The parenting crisis

[digimumworld]

I’m listening to the radio, the discussion is on knife crime. A caller calls in and says that we are collectively failing our children - she’s a school governor and parent and said that teachers are scared of children and that we need to stop blaming teachers - we should ask ourselves what’s going on at home for many children and that there is a huge parenting crisis at the moment.

I actually agreed. It seems more common now for there to be very little consequence for “bad behaviour” from parents. I know a few parents that are scared of their children - or at least scared of hurting their children’s feelings; also (this is the reality for me too as a parent) it’s so so hard to monitor what they are exposed to on social media - how do we know if the content they are seeing is overriding the values we are setting?

I am a parent - I truly believe that the modern parent has so much more to consider (incase relevant).

AIBU for thinking maybe there is a parenting crisis?

YANBU. This is where "gentle parenting" and no consequences has got us. Unfortunately, society has reaped what it sowed.

I’m a librarian and I have worked in schools. I found there was a real change in culture from when I was at school in that if I told a student they had over dues and needed to return or replace, they’d go to another member of staff and say “miss wants the book back but I never took it out” and that member of staff would agree with the child. Doesn’t matter that I remember loaning it to them and it can’t magically get onto their account without being scanned out but sure, I’m the one that’s lying. As a child, in this scenario the adults would back each other up, and you can bet if I’d told my parents they would’ve told me to find the book or pay up. I feel like adults are a bit at the mercy of kids now and afraid to tell them they’re wrong, obviously lying or just flat out misbehaving. (I don’t work in schools anymore and this was a big part of why!!)

I don’t blame teachers at all by the way, I believe this is a cultural thing that is severely impacting them and we need to do better to support them in their workplace so they can do their job to the best of their ability instead of being treated like shit by management, government and students!

But how does that affect knife crime among puppies?

@BackoffSusan Maybe your son does have these issues. Lots don’t. When I was a kid no one did. It’s a tricky path to tread as my views are undoubtedly old fashioned but it’s true that today there is a lack of parental discipline and boundaries all hiding behind these new labels.

I was in a cafe the other day when a child, about 3, went up and thumped another child around the same age quite hard on the back and grabbed his toy.
The Mother went up and said “now that wasn’t very nice was it, where are your kind hands?” she made no attempt to take the toy back.
The other Mother eventually went up grabbed the toy back and said, quite rightly, “ no, you do not do that’ to which he burst into tears and his Mother had a go telling her off for trying to parent her child as he wasn’t used to harsh words!!
Pity his teachers in a few years!!

@WhatATimeToBeAlive this post is an answer to yours

Do you think knife crime stats and perpetrator backgrounds back up your claim?

Another factor I think in bad parenting is social media / smartphones. The number of times I'm out and there are badly behaved children running around and the parents are on their phones completely oblivious.

There is increasing recognition of how bad social media / smartphones are for children's mental health and wellbeing but what's not discussed is how parents are modelling this behaviour and how bad it is for them too.

Those bad effects don't magically go away when someone hits 18. Older parents won't have had this stuff growing up so don't have any particular skills against the negative consequences and meanwhile there is a huge push to force adults to not be able to function in the modern world without using a smartphone. You might go on your phone to top up your child's school lunch account but then you're hooked in by a notification about some crap.

I think smartphones are bad for humanity in general - particularly in the totally unregulated environment we now have - and social media addiction definitely has an impact on parenting.

I could not agree more! There's gentle parenting with strict boundaries (which I'm on board with), but then there's gentle parenting where parents simply cannot say no to their children.

The below thread is a perfect example of this - some of the responses were so surprising! "Positive reinforcement works better than disciplining".

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5264670-my-toddler-is-preventing-baby-from-walking?reply=141800469

I agree with pp that it isn't MC parents whose kids are out there carrying knives and stabbing others.
The mum I know who swore and shouted constantly at her kids, smacked them in public ended up with naughty boys who didn't listen because everything was shouted at them constantly.
The kids who had less aggressive parenting (what some of you seem to be alluding to as permissive/kind/gentle) are the ones who are kind and thoughtful.

Just look at USA where houses who believe in aggression, authoritarianism and gun rights churn out school shooters.

I agree.

This is not about hitting children.

But it is about a degree of social responsibility which means identifying certain forms of behaviour are unacceptable in schools.

Social media desensitises children to the impact of their behaviour in the real world. Schools should be empowered to take online misbehaviour very seriously, sexual harassment, sexualise behaviour very seriously. This affects girls and boys - it is not all one way where boys are wicked or harassers. Our teenagers are living in a highly sexualised online environment without supervision. This is a ticket to serious emotional problems which grow each year.

It is possible to change it. But it will need teachers and schools to be empowered to do it without parents. Because parenting is a massive issue here as to the use of social media and use the internet. It's like letting your kids have access to the drinks cabinet every day.

Personally, I think a good response to a child who asks why other children get to disobey rules/have unlimited access to electronics/argue with their parents in public/generally be antisocial and they don’t, is that that other child is being raised by nasty, unintelligent chav parents to be a nasty, unintelligent chav who contributes nothing to society and is looked down upon by normal, decent people, and they are being raised by responsible and respectable parents to be someone who others want to spend time around. It’s positive, I believe, to pass on a healthy revulsion for certain types of behaviour as early as possible, instead of trying to teach children to be tolerant of things that you as an adult wouldn’t accept in a peer. I don’t want my children thinking they should seek to have any familiarity at all with children who are being raised to be menaces to society, and that’s one thing I would politely disagree with a teacher on - it’s not bullying to exclude antisocial people from your a circle of acquaintances from the earliest age, so the taint of their behaviour doesn’t influence you.

I think the problems lie with both some parenting and some teaching - and the root cause is that most parents and most teachers have no idea what child development research says, and nothing about how child development research informs parenting and teaching and disciplin and everything else inbetween.

The research indicates what is and isn't age appropriate - widely ignored by teachers and parents.

The research indicates that punishment is damaging and that discipline should be guidance and connection with the child - children who feel safe and are having their needs met will want to behave well and will follow guidance - most children are not getting basic levels of guidance in terms of morality and behaviour and discipline, are not getting their needs met in terms of being guided, educated, and many do not have sufficient connection with their parents - even when their parents love them -nor a healthy appropriate relationship with many teachers.

It would be reasonably easy to put this right if we had good leaders who were permitted to lead in good ways.

Parents often say that it is wrong to helicopter but we have now gone too far the other way - children need to freedom to explore their physical environments, people around them, the world around - but this freedom has to be age appropriate and combined with instruction and guidance about behaviour and morality and education etc, I think.

Having read through some of the "Private schools are a waste of money" threads, it does seem many of those parents might have a point. How come none of the "my DC's state school is a shitshow" posts ever come up on there? Everyone always wanging on about how "bright kids do well anywhere" suddenly now describing schools where parents shout at teachers, kids carry knives, kids punching and shouting at teachers...

one of the issues I see is that there is no continuity of behaviour management from primary to secondary.
Children when the move up already believe they can do what they like with little consequence.

In DDs primary her friend was punched in the head by this boy. The boy was then picked to go on a special trip to represent the school at a local theatre music show with another badly behaved boy. They were sent home within an hour for breaking instruments. Because obviously what he needed was attention/special treat.

Hes not from a broken home, his mum is lovely, they have plenty of money for nice holidays. She admits she spoiled him. Primary have then reinforced it. He was PEX from secondary in y7.
the boy who was punched had to go in and threaten the school with OFSTED/police in the end.

its not unusual for students to be sent home from transition week as they aren’t scared of being told off anymore.

I think there's also a problem that the focus is always so individual. Children's behaviour impacts others and sometimes there should be sanctions not as punishment but to make the other children safe. Then a conversation can be had about how the behaviour makes those children unsafe / is risky.

There are behaviours in my childrens' schools that make other children unsafe and there is no suspension. Of course what happens next is escalation and of course eventually it ends up with things like knife crime. Inappropriate and risky behaviour needs to be addressed far earlier by both schools and parents and there need to be consequences for it.

Or in other words "I blame the parents'' and 'Modern parents, what are they like!'.

If they'd had mumsnet in 1850 people would have been saying the same thing.

I’ve never understood how immediate blame falls on school teachers. What is going on at home is exactly the question that should be asked!

Exactly. The "good old days" when we only had a stick to play with and regularly got the belt or caned. Clearly didn't give people odd coping mechanisms and increase generational mental health issues and addiction indices at ALL!
Oh for those days, why isn't a Brexit unicorn going around schools and stabbing all the little oiks? Bet they're all forrin too.
🙄

@houseboutique - agreed. But what do you do about such parents? They are either weak or neglectful. Their children will cop it.

There is one girl in my daughter's class. This girl is a bully. She is also permitted access to social media. She sends sexualised messages, she shouts and yells and is aggressive. She is 13. Her parents would say they are good people. But their daughter is vile and her behaviour never changes.

It is a mystery to me that they imagine she will be a good person when she gets to be an adult. You can see already that this is very unlikely unless she receives vastly more attention from her parents than she does now.

But studies show the opposite with regards to an attachment parenting style. Keeping babies close is the natural thing to do.

I was a little brat at school. I was always hitting other kids at primary school, destroying equipment and argumentative. My mother was awful. She would fly into rages, hit us, and destroy our things. Then was surprised when I acted in the same way.

It's nothing to do with teachers. If your child is a nasty bit of work it's the parents

Gentle parenting results is children with a lack of resilience and boundaries - which they need as boundaries show love and care.

Dysfunctional, lazy parenting results in children being allowed to be exposed to violence, porn and no consequences - therefore acting out what their brains can't cope with.

It doesnt have to be gentle parenting verses lazy parenting.

Both however have in common that discipline is lacking.

Spare the rod (meaning discipline, not a physical rod) and spoil the child. The Bible Proverb was right thousands of years ago. But people poo-poo it ("listen to THAT old book? Nah") and now we are in the state we are in.

Also agree with this.

My DC are at primary school, but the skills and nature of a teacher make so much difference to how the children behave.

Eldest (who is autistic) last year had the most amazing teacher, was experienced and a complete natural with children - and she said on so many occasions how much she loved the class and how much she would miss them - she genuinely cared. DC was so settled, enjoyed school and really tried her best. The children in the class loved the teacher, there were no behavioural problems as the children wanted to do well for her.

Teacher this year is young, much more inexperienced and she has a very black and white view of children's behaviour - that they should just be sitting quietly and listening because she says so, without trying to work out how she can help those who find it trickier.

And it's not just pandering, it's about getting results - she's much stricter than last year's teacher, yet she's got more issues with the class (who are actually generally quite a good group) than any other teacher previously had.

And my own DC is really struggling and currently going through a period of EBSA for the first time 😥

That was pretty much what I had implied - teachers aren’t at fault for a badly behaved child and the blame shouldn’t fall on them. I never suggested once in my statement it was the teachers fault. You have completely missed what I said and interpreted it all wrong.

@Anonym00se it's really not slings and too much kindness doing this

Think about how children are damaged, look at who ends up committing knife crime

Really the focus on mc parents with slings is not it