The parenting crisis

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I’m listening to the radio, the discussion is on knife crime. A caller calls in and says that we are collectively failing our children - she’s a school governor and parent and said that teachers are scared of children and that we need to stop blaming teachers - we should ask ourselves what’s going on at home for many children and that there is a huge parenting crisis at the moment.

I actually agreed. It seems more common now for there to be very little consequence for “bad behaviour” from parents. I know a few parents that are scared of their children - or at least scared of hurting their children’s feelings; also (this is the reality for me too as a parent) it’s so so hard to monitor what they are exposed to on social media - how do we know if the content they are seeing is overriding the values we are setting?

I am a parent - I truly believe that the modern parent has so much more to consider (incase relevant).

AIBU for thinking maybe there is a parenting crisis?

@coldscottishmum no agreeing with you.

Teachers are not responsible for kids. Parents make them, and if they are antisocial or violent this is parental failure.

Oh sorry, my fault!

I absolutely agree. I have three kids and the things I see on the news now is gut wrenching. I often wonder it’s a combination of poor parenting and environmental. If there’s previous knife crime at school, do children go in feeling like they need to defend themselves in the same manner? The world is a scary place. I worry for children and teachers now. School should be a safe place for kids to be.

There ought to be a suitability test for parenthood!!!

This exactly backs up what I've just said about my eldest DC's teacher last year and this year.

Last year's teacher: Kind, caring, built up good relationships with the children = earnt their trust and respect, they enjoyed school and wanted to do well

This year's teacher: Overly strict, very black and white thinking about how children should behave, emotional manipulation = struggling to manage low-level behavioural issues, lots of unhappy children who are acting out more

This. 👏

This is a brilliant thread with so many good posts, this being one.

I, too, have wondered why there has been such an explosion of SEN diagnoses over time. I don't think the only answer is that previously people just didn't get diagnosed, but I also don't know what the answer is.

But something is wrong when so many children and young people seem unable to manage everyday life, school, work etc. My daughter, while not an extreme case by any means, is showing signs of being one of them. She has had a somewhat ambiguous 'diagnosis' (not formal, following a private online assessment to which she was referred to by the NHS) for ADD, which does make sense to us as she simply does not apply herself to work on certain subjects at school AT ALL. She isn't badly behaved, hyperactive, out of control or anything like that but she JUST WON'T do certain things but sits for hours at a task with every encouragement and instruction from teachers, parents etc but just doesn't produce any work.

I've encouraged and nagged her for hours and hours and we are at the point where her teacher/s say she is at risk of failing some of her GCSEs and even when we point out the risk/s if that happens, it doesn't seem to sink in.

While this is a generalisation, the younger generations seem to lack an understanding about responsibility and consequences (to themselves as much as others). And I'm a relatively strict parent so it's not for want to discipline!

Too busy being best mates for socials. There is no discipline and there is too much online content. Children know more than they ever needed to at this age. Seen more online than they ever should have. I am best friends with my sons but when they were younger I always said I'm your mum first, and that will always be the case.

Also, a lot of the teachers at my youngest's school (secondary) try to 'be down with the kids', some don't want to be authoritarian and some just don't know how to, they scream at the kids, and I know I have heard it from outside of classrooms.

I, too, have wondered why there has been such an explosion of SEN diagnoses over time. I don't think the only answer is that previously people just didn't get diagnosed, but I also don't know what the answer is.

Same. I assume there is research going on into the explosion of autism and ADHD diagnoses (for adults as well as children) and it'll be interesting to see the results.

Lack of consequences. If you protect children entirely from responsibility then do not expect them to see the benefits of doing something.

We all learn in life, if I do x, I get this reward.

If the x is bad behaviour and the reward is attention then you get this kind of stunted development

It's not a new thing really.

I've a family member who's kids were at high school in the mid 90's and they were incredibly badly behaved, but they'd been pretty much allowed to do as they pleased from a young age, so to them it was the norm, and looking back they weren't the only parents that had DC with that type of behaviour, it seemed to have spread among the area where an amount of parents just didn't seem bothered.

Once they'd grown into young teenagers and started to bring the police to the door their parents took on a "what do you want me to do about it" stance.

Behaviour has carried on throughout their lives.

Now having DC of their own, multiple, ranging from 4-13 in age the pattern continues X 7, so it grows with each generation, none of them flinch at giving you the middle finger, saddest thing about it is the parents are happy to put pic's on social sites showing this, no shame, no embarrassment.

I wasn't often lost for words but it's now becoming a regular occurance everytime I hear of a person having lost their life at someone elses hands it leaves me speechless at how young those doing so are becoming.

I think there's no denying that we'll see more and more of it unless there's dramatic changes ahead.

I certainly don't blame society as a whole though, I for one can only be responsible for my DC and any put in my care.
You daren't pull another's DC up on there behaviour today, and I think some posts on MN have shown that.

A really interesting discussion.

I do wonder though how many people lamenting poor "parenting" on here are guilty of entitled parenthood themselves, eg letting their kids run around a restaurant, scoot around a supermarket, allowing their child to play music loudly on a train etc and then wonder why their kids grow up into entitled teenagers/adults. It starts young and isn't just about potty training before school!

There was another thread on here about life skills. Maybe the biggest thing to teach kids is consideration of others.

Yes, I agree with this, this sums it up really well.

I think there has been a loss of authority - on the one hand I am glad we've moved on from doffing our caps at our "betters" but it has clearly gone too far the other way. But then we know that "authority" makes massive mistakes - so you can't really expect the respect anymore. See the Post Office scandal, the failings of the poiice, the cock-ups in the NHS, the infected blood scandal. Why would you actually expect anyone to listen to teachers/doctors/police?

The lack of respect for teachers started in the 1980s when they started going on strike.

I agree. As an example, almost all of my children's friends have incredibly disordered eating habits and the parents allow it or seem unable to do anything about it.

But I don't understand where I'm going wrong as I'm very strict about my kids' eating (which they don't have a problem with) and otherwise too, they have to do chores (and do them as they have learned I mean what I say), they don't have phones etc, but I must be lax in some ways without realising it as we still have these problems getting through to my youngest, it's almost like there is a brick wall we can't get through!

Another thing that seems very common now that I just can't wrap my head around is self harm. Both my children do it and when asked why they cannot explain.

It's just exhausting as a parent.

So, I'll make the point another way: if it's a parenting crisis, then presumably since 50% of the population is female, knife crime committed by females will have increased at the same rate as knife crime committed by males. Has it?

Why aren't we asking why so many of our boys are carrying and using knives? Why aren't we asking why 95% of all violent crime is committed by males? Why aren't we asking why violent crime, including knife attacks, is increasing among boys, as opposed to girls?

It is so much more complex than simply a parenting crisis, or a schools/ teaching crisis.

I didn't find that at all. Maybe my school in the 90s - huge London comp was particularly shocking but there were lots of very violent fights, gang stuff, I did hear that some carried knives, didn't see it for myself but knew the kids and I wouldn't be surprised. In all honesty my DC went to much nice school and these problems don't exist in my older DC's sixth form college. However, I feel that my youngest is exposed to the aggressive, loud atmosphere that secondary schools seem to always have. I think the sixth form model is 100 times better for kids he wants to get on and are there to learn. Perhaps that tiered system should be introduced at a younger age. Many teens at my youngest school seem to truant in the school now so they just walk around all day. Those kids by year 10 had gone at my school as they would truant outside of school, eventually be expelled and they wouldn't be disrupting anybody. There should be more options to engage those kids that don't want to be academic.

I don't know if there's a parenting crisis, but I do know that children make far, far more noise in public these days than they did in the eighties and early nineties. Perhaps this is an effect of said parenting crisis. The difference is stark. Today, children scream and wail in public as if they're being hung, drawn, and quartered, and I'm not talking about really young babies and children, I'm talking about children who are old enough to understand being asked to keep it down. I've lost count of the number of meals out that have been ruined by over-tired screaming children. And I never, ever hear parents even try to quieten them down, whether by distraction with a toy, a cuddle, or saying shh. They just let them sit there and scream their heads off for no reason, at ages 5-10.

I know it's not all parents, because the vast majority of people I know do not let their children scream to their hearts' content in public and are doing a fantastic job of raising their kids.

But there seems to be a gulf between the parents I know and what I see in the general public.

Sometimes I wonder if the difference between today and the 80s/early 90s is down to the fact that you can't smack your children today. I wouldn't have carried on in public the way that kids do today because I knew I'd get a smack. Not saying that smacking is OK, just trying to think of a reason for the amount of noise today compared to yesterday.

My kids are ND - inattentive ADHD have dyslexia and dyspraxia and have needed probably more parenting than others due to that.

However they are well liked by teachers and get praised by teachers for what I consider basic behavior ie having equipment behaving in class and working hard. They are often friends with other SEN and ND children - they tend to be one who traditionally coped in school - the deterioration in behavior and noise levels hits them much worse than NT kids.

What I think happen is essentially like herd immunity and vaccines herd immunity at certain point no longer being there. When my eldest was young there were a few more middle class parents who did permissive/gentle parenting couldn't say no couldn't discipline. They eventually learnt at school via other kids and parents. Year on year it got more and more - at same time class resources have got more stressed and less early intervention for SEN kids and perhaps due to older parents and more kids in stressful poverty - adds to strain and I think tipping points are reached - SEN/ND kids get affected first and then blamed often when they are more victims of deteriorating class room environments.

I was friends for a time with one "gentle parent" - she seemed to think behavior was learnt by osmosis - ignoring the enforcement other parents and teachers often ended up having to do with her child except when she complained about it. I never thought it was "kind" as few years later her and another similar child were frequently not invited to things as unlike other kids with underlying problems who parents stepped in and corrected behavior as appropriate.

I got told yesterday on here that being able to tell a 10 year old off had no bearing to their behavior in teen years - it's insane from what I seen and lived being able to enforce a boundary at 10 is vital to getting them to listen in teen years.

There were also posters desperately trying to equate boundaries and telling off with abusive behavior.

My DC secondary was good for first two years eldest was there - then SLT and teacher exodus left it in dire situation - and we couldn't move away. It was worse I think in middle child's GCSE years - DS had a really poor learning environment but still managed to do exceptionally well - it's since stabilised quite a bit staff levels better - but for first time ever they've had to go into lock down not once but twice so far this year and call police - both time it's involved physical attacks on staff with items and been Y7 pupils. If anything last 10 years area social economic background t pupils has got better - more middle class families in area now.

I don't know what the cause is but is worse the younger the kids are here at least.

There's a court case going on in Wales about secondary girl being knife in and stabbing teacher and another pupil - 2 teens killed due to mistake identity nearby city by other teens. Is this just the extreme end of this behavior - county lines or mental health issues - I don't know.

My tuppence-worth is that a large part of this is down to smartphones. Parents nowadays grew up with them so from the time babies are born, parents have their noses in their phones and are less engaged with their children than we used to be (I'm in my 50s for reference) Added to that, smartphones/tablets are being put into the hands of very young children. We now know that this is physically damaging to little brains, but as I said if the parents are addicted then they won't think twice about letting their kids look at screens for many hours a day.

That, on top of a general breakdown in society, lack of respect/morals etc has been a recipe for disaster.

Yes!! I went to a kids event at a museum. Had 2 examples of a parent letting their kid jump the queue. One time we’d been queuing 20 mins+

I mentioned it to the mum and she said “oh but they’re just kids, they don’t know how to wait” I stood my ground and said, no it’s my kids turn now. We’ve been waiting a long time. And very begrudgingly she called them over but was totally ignored by them, they’d just got fed up and ran off.

Honestly…. I actually practice a lot of the gentle parenting techniques myself but this was just bonkers. Is this what you’d call permissive parenting perhaps?

My Y1 child’s teacher apologised to me at pick up the other day because she’d had to tell him off for doing something naughty. I told she absolutely should tell him off and I would support her by talking to him about his behaviour at home. It says everything that teachers are now afraid to set firm boundaries with kids because of the reaction they’ll get from parents who think their kids can do no wrong.

And before anyone says “but SEND!” my son has been referred for ADHD diagnosis and this does affect his behaviour at times but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t understand right from wrong or should have a free pass to do whatever he wants.

My parents were liberal and gentle and I never got smacked, I grew up in the 80s and 90s. Even my Mum didn't get smacked growing up in the 1950s, my Dad did but it was very, very rare. My DC wouldn't scream like that as I would ask them not to and explain that it was irritating. I mean they never did that anyway but they have two interested parents and they know they are really loved, we also have a laugh particularly now they are teenagers. I think education is key, both mine have interests and they can rationalise things as they are intelligent so they wouldn't embarrass themselves with that kind of obnoxious behaviour anyway. They aren't perfect if course but neither am I so I don't expect that. I am rarely critical of them, perhaps only if they were being unkind when growing up, I don't think it works to be critical as a parent.

I think some of that is kids who could cope in past decades - like me - I have dyslexia and dyspraxia - now find it's harder to catch up if behind as so much is packed in and so little additional support in schools - and also struggle with noisy chaotic classrooms.

I'd also say many schools are more inflexible and unhelpful - some developing a us vs them mentality - possible again because the general parental support is so low.

I think they it often leads to little choice to be seek diagnoses more - as then get faced with long waiting lists.

There absolutely is a parenting crisis. There are parents I know (unfortunately) who buy their young secondary school kids vapes and don’t make them go to school. The kids run amok 24/7.
I think it’s a mixture of shit parenting which means kids who have awful behaviour (excluding SEN) mix with other kids and influence them to behave in a similar manner, combined with schools who can’t discipline effectively and don’t have staffing to pupil ratios which work anymore.

I was born in the 90s so well past the “harsh” discipline in school era but more parents were on the ball with discipline back then, and schools weren’t so overcrowded, so class sizes were smaller and teachers still had control of the classroom. You maybe had 1 or 2 “bad” kids in your class then as opposed to multiple figures. And by bad kids they probably had undiagnosed ADHD/ASD or similar as they weren’t actually bad- just struggled with the work and as a result acted up. I never genuinely feared other kids in my class.

Nowadays that just isn’t the case. If you say the wrong thing to the wrong person now you actually could get stabbed or beat to a pulp. Back then it was a few shitty text messages or Facebook posts about how your hair was ugly and you had spots.

The world has changed for the worse. Social media has a huge part to play though. Kids don’t get a break from other kids now. It’s constant and not a good thing.

I don't think the only answer is that previously people just didn't get diagnosed
They didn't get diagnosed because* *the manifestation of behaviours were then not considered pathologic at the time. GPs would not refer for diagnosis but to parenting support.

As GPs became overwhelmed and parenting support stopped AND it became more common for parents not to take responsibility and wanted to find other reasons for the issues they couldn't manage, referrals to specialists and the seeking of clinical reasons became more common.

Children became more anxious because their parents judge their own parenting skills on how well they protected their children and they lacked the ability and willingness to install resilience in their children. Avoidance became the best way to support children.

There are three ways to go. Pushing with authority, fear and threats. Children becom resilient but with trauma due to the experience.

Helping children by encouraging avoidance of any stimuli causing stress and anxiety. This initially works wonderfully, but does much damage in the long term.

Or there is the middle approach: avoidance is not an issue (except in exceptional instances), but parents support and express empathy through the process.

The latter is the most demanding approach from a time and energy perspective. It's hard and so more and more parents resort the the former.