Page 7 | Another stabbing at a school?

PassingStranger · 2025-02-03T17:00:21+00:00

Fgs...... When will someone get a grip on all this? How much more can people take. People will be to scared to send their children to school? Teachers will leave, then there might not be any school anyway!!! What are they arguing about at school anyway Is this gang related or a disagreement? A girl has also been found guilty today of stabbing a teacher last year too.😫

Openuniversity22 · 04/02/2025 12:20

ERthree · 04/02/2025 10:43

Even when children are murdered we do nothing. Four teenagers killed and stabbed in the U.K already this year and we are only 34 days in.
What we need to realise is that talking it out and cuddles don't work no matter how much we wish they would. Some people are violent, they don't live by normal rules and a civilised social life is not one they can take part in and the sooner we understand that the better our country will be.
Some killers have had a chaotic life, boys especially need a male role model, they need a strong family structure, yes us women can dispute that fact all we like but it is true.
Youngsters need a disciplined structure and we as a society haven't given them that, we are far too mealy mouthed and weak.
Go back half a century and yes we had bad youngsters and borstals ( most who went to borstal saw the error of their ways) now we have an epidemic of out of control youngsters and it is our fault. There is no hierarchy, no leadership and no discipline, time out is not discipline and we, they adults need to step up and sort it out and sorting it begins at home. It befins with us being parents not mates. The time is here to save lives.

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This.

RampantIvy · 04/02/2025 12:23

It's disgusting what the government are trying to push through and also their attempts to demonise the home ed community. Schools are not safe places.

@TakeMyLifeAndLetItBe but aren't you doing the same by demonising all schools?

I agree that teachers aren't allowed to do enough to control badly behaved children, but let's not tar every school or every home educator with the same brush.

ADHDspoonie · 04/02/2025 12:25

Baileypoot · 04/02/2025 12:11

One of the most disgusting, ignorant posts I have ever read on here.

How dare you. How bloody dare you. Home Education has been used as a scapegoat in poor Sara's case to cover up the massive failings of social services who were 100% aware of Sara and the problems in her family.

They don't want to accept responsibility for failing Sara and Labour are taking full advantage of the situation and blaming home education.

Sara was removed from school in term time and then murdered during the school summer holidays.

This is nothing to do with home education and EVERYTHING to do with abusive parents, and at least two overwhelmed, broken systems - the state education system and social services.

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This. 👏

ADHDspoonie · 04/02/2025 12:30

RampantIvy · 04/02/2025 12:23

It's disgusting what the government are trying to push through and also their attempts to demonise the home ed community. Schools are not safe places.

@TakeMyLifeAndLetItBe but aren't you doing the same by demonising all schools?

I agree that teachers aren't allowed to do enough to control badly behaved children, but let's not tar every school or every home educator with the same brush.

I think what the poster is trying to get at that , is that the government are constantly saying that schools are safer than home ed and home ed kids are more at risk (statistically they aren't - but that's a whole other debate) whilst there are multiple reports of violence in schools almost weekly.

The state education system and social services are broken. Chronically understaffed and underfunded but they're trying to sweep it under the carpet and say but 'LOOK! HOME EDUCATION POSES MORE OF A RISK' as a diversion tactic.

TENSsion · 04/02/2025 12:32

RampantIvy · 04/02/2025 12:23

It's disgusting what the government are trying to push through and also their attempts to demonise the home ed community. Schools are not safe places.

@TakeMyLifeAndLetItBe but aren't you doing the same by demonising all schools?

I agree that teachers aren't allowed to do enough to control badly behaved children, but let's not tar every school or every home educator with the same brush.

Stating that schools have much less control over their pupils resulting in other students being put at greater risk is not “tarring with the same brush”. It’s a matter of fact.

Do you think any schools are as strict as they were 30 years ago in the uk?

Cattenberg · 04/02/2025 12:34

Hoppinggreen · 04/02/2025 09:51

I am a Governor and involved in Exclusions.
The box ticking and exhaustive process to exclude anyone even if violent is unbelieveable even when there has been violence. We are currently trying to exclude a boy who pushed a teacher over, injuring her and its not easy.
The Deputy Head was telling me that he fears being stabbed one day as he is on the gate at the start of the day, he even said he knows who it is likely to be who will stab him but until they do something he is powerless.

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I would be happy to see a “one strike and you’re out” policy for serious incidents of violence.

Caught bringing a knife to school? Pupil referral unit

A pupil over the age of, say 10, attacks and injures a teacher? Pupil referral unit

A pupil significantly injures another pupil in an unprovoked attack? Pupil referral unit

A secondary aged pupil threatens to seriously harm another person at the school? Pupil referral unit

RampantIvy · 04/02/2025 12:34

Do you think any schools are as strict as they were 30 years ago in the uk?

I have no idea. I left school in 1977. DD's school (state comprehensive) was strict (she left in 2018). I felt her school was stricter than mine.

MixedBananas · 04/02/2025 12:37

Interesting how kids violence got worse and common once physical discipline was mad illegal. Just something I noticed.

Turbottimes · 04/02/2025 12:38

Here in Scotland there are zero permanent exclusions. I believe violence has risen quicker than in England since this policy was introduced. Yes if you remove a violent child from the school community they are more likely to end up in prison, but showing to every child that there are consequences to actions surely also keeps other children out of prison in the future?

CaptainFuture · 04/02/2025 12:45

Cattenberg · 04/02/2025 12:34

I would be happy to see a “one strike and you’re out” policy for serious incidents of violence.

Caught bringing a knife to school? Pupil referral unit

A pupil over the age of, say 10, attacks and injures a teacher? Pupil referral unit

A pupil significantly injures another pupil in an unprovoked attack? Pupil referral unit

A secondary aged pupil threatens to seriously harm another person at the school? Pupil referral unit

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Absolutely to all of this, no other procedures needed. And get rid of that restorative justice nonsense which again is fully weighted on the side of the perpetrator.

Hoppinggreen · 04/02/2025 12:45

Cattenberg · 04/02/2025 12:34

I would be happy to see a “one strike and you’re out” policy for serious incidents of violence.

Caught bringing a knife to school? Pupil referral unit

A pupil over the age of, say 10, attacks and injures a teacher? Pupil referral unit

A pupil significantly injures another pupil in an unprovoked attack? Pupil referral unit

A secondary aged pupil threatens to seriously harm another person at the school? Pupil referral unit

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Shall I tell you what happened last time a pupil allegedly brought a knife into the school I am involved with? This is absolutely true
Rumour goes round X has a knife, this is not a revelation to any of the SLT
SLT take Y10 child to one side and asks them
Child refuses to answer and refuses to submit to a search
Police called, say they will get there when able
Parent called who by some miracle actually agrees to come
Parent says they will search child
SLT allegedly sees child pass something to parent who puts it in his pocket
Parent says child does not have a knife and he is fed up of child being accused and its down to racism. Leaves and takes child with him
Police turn up, say they will go and see child and parent
Parent puts in a complaint to Governors

I REALLY REALLY wish I had made this up

TENSsion · 04/02/2025 12:51

RampantIvy · 04/02/2025 12:34

Do you think any schools are as strict as they were 30 years ago in the uk?

I have no idea. I left school in 1977. DD's school (state comprehensive) was strict (she left in 2018). I felt her school was stricter than mine.

In what way was it stricter?

Consider what would have happened when you were at school if someone had brought a knife to school or seriously assaulted a teacher vs what would have happened in 2018.

When I say “strict”, I’m not talking about the easily enforceable small rules like uniforms and homework. Those rules are designed to create an illusion of control. The majority of kids, who generally follow the rules, will give the impression that the teachers have full control over their pupils resulting school because they’re following arbitrary guidelines imposed by the school. Meanwhile, the minority of children who do not and will not follow the rules are left to do as they please. Commit serious assault. Make other children’s lives a living hell. Impact other children’s futures. This is because teachers can’t stop their behaviour and have no real authority. The parents don’t care. The only option is to mollycoddle them and treat them with kid gloves until they leave school.

We need serious reform in our education system. For too long we’ve been focused on schools being a place to survive and not a place to thrive.

crumblingschools · 04/02/2025 13:15

I know it’s not in this country but there is breaking news of a shooting in a school in Sweden 😔

custardpyjamas · 04/02/2025 15:27

Perhaps parents should be made responsible for their children's actions, if a child takes a knife into school (or if they are found with a knife by the police) the parents should be prosecuted. Parents would at least be motivated to think about what their children are doing and at least try to stop them doing illegal and dangerous things, many really don't seem to care. And if a child commits an offence with a knife and injures or kills someone the parents should share at least some of the blame. These days parents seem to just abdicate their responsibilities for their children's actions. Someone else should do something about it the teachers, the police, the government, but the first responsibility lies with the parents and if they can't cope with a child and stop them carrying a knife they should inform the police.

Cattenberg · 04/02/2025 15:54

custardpyjamas · 04/02/2025 15:27

Perhaps parents should be made responsible for their children's actions, if a child takes a knife into school (or if they are found with a knife by the police) the parents should be prosecuted. Parents would at least be motivated to think about what their children are doing and at least try to stop them doing illegal and dangerous things, many really don't seem to care. And if a child commits an offence with a knife and injures or kills someone the parents should share at least some of the blame. These days parents seem to just abdicate their responsibilities for their children's actions. Someone else should do something about it the teachers, the police, the government, but the first responsibility lies with the parents and if they can't cope with a child and stop them carrying a knife they should inform the police.

But what about the kids who would use this kind of law to blackmail their parents? “If you don’t give me money, I’ll get you sent to prison”.

ConundrumTime2 · 04/02/2025 16:01

izimbra · 03/02/2025 18:31

"Get these dangerous and continually disruptive students out of schools."

The majority of kids who end up in youth offender units - the cohort most likely to be excluded from school - are kids with learning and developmental difficulties who've come through the care system and who come from severely dysfunctional homes.

Excluding them from school is the thing most likely to result in that child leading a life of crime.

"Research consistently shows that school exclusion has a significant negative impact on students, leading to poorer mental health, increased behavioral difficulties, lower academic achievement, higher unemployment rates, and a greater likelihood of future criminal activity; essentially, it can severely disrupt a child's life trajectory and future opportunities"

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That's very sad that those children have those issues. Unleashing them on other innocent children in a place that they can't escape from is not the answer.

custardpyjamas · 04/02/2025 16:24

Cattenberg · 04/02/2025 15:54

But what about the kids who would use this kind of law to blackmail their parents? “If you don’t give me money, I’ll get you sent to prison”.

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They should report it to the police, and if it's come to that where have they been for the previous 10 or more years of parenting? That attitude doesn't come out of a vacuum. And the child would also be prosecuted for the offence in the usual way as well, it wouldn't just be the parents in trouble.

EasyTouch · 04/02/2025 16:25

Porcuporpoise · 03/02/2025 18:35

I'm not disagreeing with you exactly but the real question is what do we then do with such children? There's plenty of evidence to show that excluding children and then just leaving them out of education puts them at real risk of criminal activity and, for obvious reasons, other schools are extremely reluctant to pick them up.

So exclude/expel them and then what?

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There has to be some sort of societal equilibrium . It has swung to much in consideration of the POTENTIAL of those who infringe their fuckedupedness upon others.
What about consideration for the REALITY of those who have no choice but to suffer the actions of those who do not internalise their "trauma"/insecure upbringing/ bad mental health/blah blah blah?
Who gives a fuck if children with little or no act right about them end up in chokey as adults "because they got excluded"?

Teachers cannot continue to be social workers/psychologists/socioligists/ the patient uncle/auntie to wanton children AND be expected to teach our children to a non dunce standard. And for as little pay, respect and understanding as they receive contemporarily from most quarters.....especially post Gen X parents.

The days of three reports leading to suspension then being expelled if recalibration of behaviour is non existent have to return.

Post Boomer childhood vexations and the avoidance thereof cannot continue to be the prism through which parenting and teaching is manifested. It has become anti societal and the effects of it cannot hold. Maturity has become code for the dreaded OLD. Nothing that came before was worth a damn. If I did not do it, it didn't happen and if it did, it shouldn't have.

It is also time to admit that the overwhelming majority of people can just about make a difference to the lives of their nearest and dearest. Things like teaching , nursing , being a social worker, doctor, surgeon are meant to be vocations, not jobs to do in order to not flip burgers. There is a lot of in between.

It is a very extreme position to take to immediately go to Poor Little Joanna/Johnnie's adult incaceration prospects when permanent exclusion is suggested for their infringing violent behaviour.
"Potential" should never override reality in such circumstances or be the primary axis upon what consequences of violent maladaptation are meted out.

The Anglo First World is going to shit with its continued exclusion of shame and punishment from societal mantra .

Baileypoot · 04/02/2025 16:27

ADHDspoonie · 04/02/2025 12:30

I think what the poster is trying to get at that , is that the government are constantly saying that schools are safer than home ed and home ed kids are more at risk (statistically they aren't - but that's a whole other debate) whilst there are multiple reports of violence in schools almost weekly.

The state education system and social services are broken. Chronically understaffed and underfunded but they're trying to sweep it under the carpet and say but 'LOOK! HOME EDUCATION POSES MORE OF A RISK' as a diversion tactic.

Edited

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This, this and this again!

Original poster

PassingStranger · 04/02/2025 16:45

Some killers have had a chaotic life, boys especially need a male role model, they need a strong family structure, yes us women can dispute that fact all we like but it is true.

too true, family breakdown, absent fathers plays a big part.

OP posts:

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 04/02/2025 17:09

All I can think is that we need more money for education in locations other than huge secondaries. So lots and lots more 'special schools' of ALL kinds. Schools for those with SEND. Special education for those excluded for violence (possibly with vocational work included as most of these children won't be taking loads of GCSEs). Schools for those who can't cope with huge schools with rigid routines for whatever reason. Break these dens of violence, aggression and general anarchy up into much smaller units. The current trend for all secondaries to be 1,000 pupils plus can't be good for anyone.And, yes, I know it's financial expedience and nobody is going to be setting up loads of schools with 150 pupils but... it might work.

ERthree · 04/02/2025 17:31

Cattenberg · 04/02/2025 12:34

I would be happy to see a “one strike and you’re out” policy for serious incidents of violence.

Caught bringing a knife to school? Pupil referral unit

A pupil over the age of, say 10, attacks and injures a teacher? Pupil referral unit

A pupil significantly injures another pupil in an unprovoked attack? Pupil referral unit

A secondary aged pupil threatens to seriously harm another person at the school? Pupil referral unit

Show quote history

Do you really think a child cares if it is kicked out of school ? The answer is no, they are delighted. It is like being sent out of class, they act up so they are sent out and until the adults in charge understand that behaviour is only going to get worse.
Unless these violent pupils are sent to borstal style institution that are ran by hard men these violent youngsters won't change. Some people in our society only understand one world and kindness and understanding is not the way they learn. For those that will never learn prison will be their home for most of their adult life.

CaptainFuture · 04/02/2025 17:37

Do you really think a child cares if it is kicked out of school ? The answer is no, they are delighted.
And the teachers, pupils and parents of the other pupils are meant to care they don't care? Worry about their potential?
I'd just be glad they're away from my child!

JHound · 04/02/2025 17:40

ERthree · 04/02/2025 10:43

Even when children are murdered we do nothing. Four teenagers killed and stabbed in the U.K already this year and we are only 34 days in.
What we need to realise is that talking it out and cuddles don't work no matter how much we wish they would. Some people are violent, they don't live by normal rules and a civilised social life is not one they can take part in and the sooner we understand that the better our country will be.
Some killers have had a chaotic life, boys especially need a male role model, they need a strong family structure, yes us women can dispute that fact all we like but it is true.
Youngsters need a disciplined structure and we as a society haven't given them that, we are far too mealy mouthed and weak.
Go back half a century and yes we had bad youngsters and borstals ( most who went to borstal saw the error of their ways) now we have an epidemic of out of control youngsters and it is our fault. There is no hierarchy, no leadership and no discipline, time out is not discipline and we, they adults need to step up and sort it out and sorting it begins at home. It befins with us being parents not mates. The time is here to save lives.

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No point having male role models if a lot of them are shit.

But I agree re: chaotic home lives and I think this post coincides nicely with another recent thread when the OP was defending women creating kids with terrible men in terrible circumstances just to experience motherhood.

As you note no, we all fare worse from this kind of thinking.

JHound · 04/02/2025 17:44

PassingStranger · 04/02/2025 16:45

Some killers have had a chaotic life, boys especially need a male role model, they need a strong family structure, yes us women can dispute that fact all we like but it is true.

too true, family breakdown, absent fathers plays a big part.

Why do you assume that if the absent father was present there would be any benefit? I grew up in area where absent fathers were the norm and almost all the absent fathers were trash men (with many being jailbirds themselves.)

A lot of these boys may not live with their dads but they have contact with them.

Which is the problem.