Another stabbing at a school?

[PassingStranger]

Fgs......
When will someone get a grip on all this?
How much more can people take.

People will be to scared to send their children to school?
Teachers will leave, then there might not be any school anyway!!!

What are they arguing about at school anyway
Is this gang related or a disagreement?
A girl has also been found guilty today of stabbing a teacher last year too.😫

I am a Governor and involved in Exclusions.
The box ticking and exhaustive process to exclude anyone even if violent is unbelieveable even when there has been violence. We are currently trying to exclude a boy who pushed a teacher over, injuring her and its not easy.
The Deputy Head was telling me that he fears being stabbed one day as he is on the gate at the start of the day, he even said he knows who it is likely to be who will stab him but until they do something he is powerless.

@izimbra so not going to school turns people into criminals?why aren't there lots of children who are being homeschooled in the criminal justice system then?
Why are the hours of 9-3 so pivotal for stopping a life of crime?

Sorry but fuck them I don't give a shit my child's safety is my number one priority. Funny how everyone wanted to call me a whore and a slut when I had my child at 15 but when a kid the same age beats up their peers and threatens them with knives the excuses start coming out. So having sex is worse than killing someone or what?

I even read a story on here about a pregnant teacher miscarrying because of a pupil attack and then she had to sit in a meeting to talk about his "feelings" the next. The world revolves around these people too much

*the next week

It’s not a lie according to the teaching assistants in the schools I work in I have spoke to multiple staff who have spoke about this. They have been told they can not use the word no but have to use alternative words such as we don’t do that and other gentle phrases. It’s a regular occurrence for a teacher or classroom assistant to casually mention they have been punched, headbutted, bitten etc.

NOONE has said 'throw them in the trash' (its an Americanism so I'd be surprised if they did), posters are saying there should be consequences for their actions.
Unless you believe in a two-teir justice system where consequences are background dependent?

N.B and the condescending 'people like you' generally goes down like a cup of cold sick when you're trying to get people over to your side.

No. “People like” us don’t want all that mistreatment to be the responsibility of OUR children. It impacts our children’s safety. Our children’s education. Our children’ day to day life.
It shouldn’t.

@izimbra how do you keep other children safe?

We shouldn't have another fatal stabbing at a school, we've had too many already

So how do you keep dc safe?

No I’m not referring to any particular story, just some of the posters in this thread.

Schools may have protocols but look at the many, many posts from teachers (and parents with direct experience of kids with knives in their children’s school) on here. Not just in this thread, there are lots of posts on MN about the behaviours that are tolerated in school because we can’t possibly take a hard line with these individuals. These protocols aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, it seems.

Why are others expected to tolerate this in school? Or anywhere, for that matter.

Exclusions may increase crime but that’s not the fault of the kids and school staff having to tip toe around these scumbags because we daren’t upset them by doing what they deserve and throwing them into a secure unit somewhere.

How is 'don't do that' a 'gentle' phrase?

You think all staff need to do to improve compliance in school is say 'no' instead of 'don't do that'?

And why are you linking this with violent behaviour towards teachers?

Do you think staff saying 'don't do that' instead of 'no' is in anyway responsible for children behaving violently?

How is 'don't do that' a 'gentle' phrase?
What?! Do you think thats aggressive or violent?!
Do you actually work in the thick of education?

Again - if you make a case that criminality and disruptive behaviour has complex causes and is difficult to address, then you're advocating 'tip toeing' around bad behaviour? And that the children who fill our youth offender institutions - who overwhelmingly come from abuse and neglect - are just 'scum'

Just don't beat your breast about high rates of violent youth crime, if you're advocating for policies that increase it.

Debating anything with Daily Mail readers is exhausting.

Of course I don’t think the word no will solve everything my point is that teachers are having to pander to children and use their words carefully and gently. I am linking the violent behaviour to the fact schools can not discipline children anymore. I don’t work directly with children as I could never in a million years deal with what they do but I see what the teachers have to deal with every day. If they are having to pander to children being aggressive and badly behaved at a young age what are they going to grow up to be like?

Ok I take no answer on the question how do we keep the rest of the children safe means they don't feature for some reason?

How do you ensure stabbings and fatalities stop without looking at that part?

Why would you gloss over the victims in that way?

izimbra is a clear example of the viewpoint that the only ones who matter are the perpetrators, everyone else is just collateral, but probably deserves it anyway, as to not think the same way=daily mail reader.

Nobody’s forcing you to reply. You engaged with me first.

Yes they are scum. Anyone who willingly puts a sharp object inside another person with the intent to harm or kill them, is scum, and they don’t deserve to live amongst us.

Quite frankly, if my child was on the end of their knife, I wouldn’t care what sort of background they claim to come from.

Would you be so mindful of their background/autism/ADHD issues if your kid was lying dead because of one of them?

This is a shocking incident. Clearly we need to edit for the full circumstances to come out, but two things can be true at the same time:

1. More support is needed for violent and those DC with extreme behaviour issues to deal with these at an early stage and stop them escalating.
2. Students who are a danger to staff and other students should not be in mainstream schools. The anti-exclusion lobby always focus on the damage caused by exclusion, but not on the risks to the education and safety of the 29 other DC in the class of having a violent student alongside them.

Even when children are murdered we do nothing. Four teenagers killed and stabbed in the U.K already this year and we are only 34 days in.
What we need to realise is that talking it out and cuddles don't work no matter how much we wish they would. Some people are violent, they don't live by normal rules and a civilised social life is not one they can take part in and the sooner we understand that the better our country will be.
Some killers have had a chaotic life, boys especially need a male role model, they need a strong family structure, yes us women can dispute that fact all we like but it is true.
Youngsters need a disciplined structure and we as a society haven't given them that, we are far too mealy mouthed and weak.
Go back half a century and yes we had bad youngsters and borstals ( most who went to borstal saw the error of their ways) now we have an epidemic of out of control youngsters and it is our fault. There is no hierarchy, no leadership and no discipline, time out is not discipline and we, they adults need to step up and sort it out and sorting it begins at home. It befins with us being parents not mates. The time is here to save lives.

This is so distressing. The innocent boy was bullied. And then this

So I'm wondering who is speaking up for those children?

We need the return of borstals.

Children are murdering other children. Regularly.

I'd like to know when this level of violence escalated amongst our teens. Because it just wasn't there when I was at school. Yes there was the odd fight. But this level of violence was practically unheard of locally and nationally.

There has to correlation with the rise of social media and smartphones. They are literally changing kids brains. Nothing else has fundamentally changed in society. There's always been disadvantaged kids, neglect, violence at home, poverty. But children murdering children was not a thing. It was vanishingly rare.

Social media is quite literally changing kids brains. Combine that with a child who comes from a family where there is neglect, violence, drugs and you have the perfect storm.

We need to wake up.

This conversation needs to happen, but on the first couple of pages, two posters are aware of people directly involved and are commenting on what it may have been about. This needs to stop, the speculation and unintentional gossip of what it's all about could be even more upsetting for the families and professionals involved and could impact the police investigation.
I think we should keep it to a general debate on youths and knives and leave specific speculation out of it to preserve the dignity of those involved and said police investigation.

@TheUsualChaos agree but 'back then' so late 90s early 00s for me, people still had to take personal responsibility for their behaviour, as you can see from this thread now they're told
'It's someone else's fault you do this'
'Your needs aren't being met, so you're justified in this behaviour'..

Oh absolutely. The problem is we are just not responding to the early warning signs. These kids very often need intervention in primary school but they are shuffled along the system until the ticking time bomb goes off, usually somewhere between the age of 14-18.

So many cases have we had in recent years where the build up to the violence has been played out online through messaging and social media apps. Social/economic issues aside, the phones are playing a very big part in fueling all of this violence. This is the extreme end of the spectrum of the damage smartphones are doing to children/teenagers. The government needs to intervene. But they won't.

One of the most disgusting, ignorant posts I have ever read on here.

How dare you. How bloody dare you. Home Education has been used as a scapegoat in poor Sara's case to cover up the massive failings of social services who were 100% aware of Sara and the problems in her family.

They don't want to accept responsibility for failing Sara and Labour are taking full advantage of the situation and blaming home education.

Sara was removed from school in term time and then murdered during the school summer holidays.

This is nothing to do with home education and EVERYTHING to do with abusive parents, and at least two overwhelmed, broken systems - the state education system and social services.