To find what DC said really sad?

[Haemagoblin]

I was parking the car with my DD8 in the back, and making a bit of a hash of it. I laughed to DD "God I hope Daddy's not looking out the window, he'll be laughing at me!"

She replied "he wouldn't laugh - he doesn't even smile very much".

I find this so so sad. I mean she's not wrong, he's a bit of a gloomy person; but he does try to be a good dad, playfights with them and teases them and makes jokes,so I guess I didn't realise how much his naturally quite negative vibe was actually being picked up on by the children.

Should I talk to him about it? We are not in a very good place so I worry he'll see it as me getting at him - but if my kid had said something like that about me I'd want to know!

So basically he is going to be miserable until the day he dies and as he gets older he is going to get more miserable.

Misery is infectious.

Will it be less complicated if your dc end up like him. Miserable until the day they die

If someone says they will put off being happy until they have achieved something then you know they aren’t a happy person and are never going to be a happy person .

The drive is a mask they wear instead of a smile

Why waste your one life trying hard to make someone happy when they aren’t and have never been a happy person

It’s like trying to change someone’s eye colour
It’s never going to happen

I don’t think you understand what that sort of misery is doing to all of you, both mentally and physically

Imagine all the time and freedom you would all have if you didn’t have to try.

I bet if he ever went away for a week for work etc the lightness in the house would be noticeable

Maybe book him a holiday/residential course just for him and see how you feel after he isn’t around for 7 days
And ask dc how they feel.

Just to add Life isn’t perfect. If he is chasing perfection then he is a fool or just making excuses

You don't think it would be even slightly irresponsible and manipulative to ask an 8 year old and a 4 year old "so are you happier when daddy's not around?"

So there's always something to be annoyed about - the fact it's raining, something in the house needing fixing, over the road's recycle bag had takeaway remnants in it so has been gutted by foxes and there's crap all over the street, traffic is looking bad on the app, his old job didn't pay enough, his new job doesn't let him work at home as much as his old job, etc etc

Have you noticed that nearly all of these things are nothing to do with him. He is just looking for a cause to justify his misery and you are buying into it

Try telling him that you should move abroad if the rain bothers him so much or fix stuff in the house, go and clear the burst bin bag up if it annoys him so much and to get up earlier and leave earlier if he wants to miss the traffic.

If he doesn’t like something then he either needs to do something about it or shut the f**k up and stop dwelling on it

You don't think it would be even slightly irresponsible and manipulative to ask an 8 year old and a 4 year old "so are you happier when daddy's not around?"

I don’t think it is at all irresponsible to consider their feelings. I think you won’t ask how they feel when daddy isn’t here because you don’t want to listen to the answer because that would mean doing something about it.

This I have tried. And to be fair to him everything he can control he does. What he struggles with is getting to grips with the fact he can't control everything. And yes that sucks for me; but it sucks for him too. More possibly. Because I can, if I must, walk away from him. He's stuck with himself. My issue is, the kids are stuck with him too, whether or not I leave him. So is it fair to say to them " he's unbreakable, so I'm bailing out - right it's handover time, you're on your own kids, see you in 3 days?"

Well respectfully I think that's bollocks. I think I won't ask them that because it's leading, looks very much like parental alienation behaviour, and because they are much too young to appreciate the significance of their answers or to give an answer other than what they think I want to hear at the time (because they are CHILDREN).

It is not for me to put this choice on them. It is my responsibility to make the choices FOR them and to hope I make the right ones. Yes they may blame me if they are unhappy with the outcome. That's their prerogative. But I absolutely won't have them blaming themselves because of something I got them to say when they were FOUR.

*unbearable not unbreakable 🤦🏼‍♀️

Better 3 days than 7 days and a mother running round trying to deflect the misery and anger that they can see through. Living with always being on their guard that they set him off

Your child is already noticing the misery and is telling you she doesn’t like it

Adding to this, has he heard of Circles of Control?

There are no guarantees in life and OP is clearly weighing her options very thoughtfully. Many people on this thread seem very certain of "the right answer" but life isn't that black and white and there are no crystal balls.

My own marriage dynamic sounds very similar to OP. In our case there are various ND diagnoses in the mix which both explains and complicates thing in various ways.

On thing I have come to appreciate is that DH and I are very different people with different strengths and our children come to us for help with different things. Mine are older - one in uni, one applying - but they tend to go to their dad for practical issues and me for emotional support. Together we are a stronger team for them than we would be apart.

Good luck OP, feel free to PM if helpful.

Thank you. I think we have the potential to be a great team as parents. As a couple not so much, but I really do see he has strengths and qualities I do not have, that he can offer them things I lack. If it weren't for him (and his, negatively framed, 'controlling' qualities) we would live in a state of chaos - probably quite good natured chaos, but kids thrive on order and routine and there is no way I would be any good at that! So a combination of him providing a framework, and my ability to think on my feet and roll with the punches; his common sense and my emotional intelligence... there's ways I can see us together being better than us apart for them. I just wish we could both reliably be grown up, get over ourselves and our interpersonal stuff and JUST focus on that. On being the best versions of ourselves we can be for them. But neither of us are able to do that all the time, which is where the problems start.

Did you actually read the bit where the OP's parents did split up? It's not necessarily a panacea.

It's easy to shout advice and insults from the cheap seats. Not so easy to deal with complicated real life situations where sometimes there is no ideal path.

Well, glad I missed that whatever it was!

I don’t think you are doing the right thing for your children or for yourself or for your husband by staying together. Where to start? Children do pick up what is happening even if they don’t understand it. Living in an unhappy household isn’t great for them. By staying together when you are not well suited you are denying both yourself and your husband the chance of a better life. You are also role modelling setting your own needs and wants aside for the sake of keeping a marriage together but it isn’t a healthy way to live long term or a good relationship model for your children. Splitting up will of course be hard and will probably be quite distressing for the children and yet in the longer term you will be a better parent by looking after yourself. My parents weren’t good for each other and I’ve often thought they would both have been happier if they had split up.

I would pick my moment and gently say it to him, it may be making your DC unhappy to see their dad looking unhappy

This fifty times over!!!!

Sorry OP I disagree with your decision making.

you have two lovely daughters, one of whom is old enough and astute enough to notice how grumpy your OH is.

the best example you can show your DC is to demonstrate that a woman’s/wifes/mothers life is worth something and everyone has the right to happiness. Empower their lives by giving them a choice (be with father or mother). They will get to an age very soon when that IS their choice.

you are using your own history as an exscuse not to split. You are also using his refusal as an exscuse. You do have agency here (more than your poor DC).

Use it. You come across as a pitiful 1950’s housewife and making lots of exscuse sir projecting a reality which isn’t there and unlikely to be aka a horrible step mum when it’s highly unlikely anyone would want marry him.

you are making out you are a martyr for your kids when in reality your kids are being ‘sacrificed for your weakness’. Sorry to tell you straight.

I grew up in SFH. High proportion now also. The world won’t end but at least 3 of you would be out of this miserable existence.

I can't give them a choice though. The choice would be made for them by the family court until they are of an age their opinions will be taken into account (around 11 from precedent). That's 7 years away for my youngest. That's not very soon. That's almost twice as long as she has been alive.

I know it must seem very simple from the outside, and I have no objection whatsoever to you telling me straight what your opinion is. That after all is what MN is for. But really, it isn't that simple.

What is an SFH?

Also people put a lot of weight into this "set them an example" thing, as if how I live my life is the only message they will take on as to what they're worth. As a child whose mother walked away, I can tell you that quite apart from any example that may have set, the feelings of worthlessness, of unimportance, that has left me with in no small part carried me to this place. Although I am aware I am giving them a far from stellar example of how a woman should conduct herself in a relationship, I don't think me just choosing to please myself without considering the situation that would leave them in, as well as making that decision knowing full well it would mean I would miss 50% of their childhood, would not give them a message that they were loved, valued, and the most important thing in my life. Which they are.

I grew up in a household like this and I would say that staying together just for the children is not doing them a favour. My parents never touched or showed affection to each other so I never learned to so relationships have always been very difficult.

Did they show affection to you (verbally,emotionally, physically)?