Page 7 | To find what DC said really sad?

Haemagoblin · 2025-01-28T21:37:53+00:00

I was parking the car with my DD8 in the back, and making a bit of a hash of it. I laughed to DD "God I hope Daddy's not looking out the window, he'll be laughing at me!" She replied "he wouldn't laugh - he doesn't even smile very much". I find this so so sad. I mean she's not wrong, he's a bit of a gloomy person; but he does try to be a good dad, playfights with them and teases them and makes jokes,so I guess I didn't realise how much his naturally quite negative vibe was actually being picked up on by the children. Should I talk to him about it? We are not in a very good place so I worry he'll see it as me getting at him - but if my kid had said something like that about me I'd want to know!

Ottersmith · 29/01/2025 10:25

Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 08:33

An enormous bone of contention (as it were).

Lost my libido after first baby, followed by a quote traumatic bereavement - previously sex had been out mainstay in the relationship as a way of bonding and reconciliation, so I definitely take responsibility for letting that slide and it did lead to a breakdown in our relationship from his side - but then again from my pov, the relationship took a battering from the early days of first baby when I felt incredibly uncared for and abandoned. He struggled a lot to adapt to parenthood, DESPISED the baby stage while I was utterly wrapped up in it. Looking back I think my expectations if us being equal parents were unrealistic, but there are some wounds from that time which have never healed because he is totally unwilling to discuss it as an issue, much less apologise. It was around this time the relationship really began to struggle. I imagine this is far from uncommon.

So anyway sex became infrequent because I fully bought into the feminist notion that I shouldn't have sex I wasn't enthusiastic about; I'm older and wiser now and know I should probably have kept it up, because now the dynamic is all fucked up - he got fed up asking and being turned down, I got fed up feeling pestered, and it all festered and blew up at regular intervals.

We had some good deep talks about it after things came to a head - this was the incident some years ago where we discussed separating, and he made it clear how big an issue the sex was for him and how unhappy it was making him, but felt he couldn't say so because he didn't want to be a creep, and now didn't feel comfortable initiating. I really wanted to acknowledge this, so made the effort to initiate a couple of times a week.

The discussion we'd had was that I didn't want sex because I didn't feel any intimacy, and he didn't feel any intimacy because we weren't having sex (classic stereotypical gendered paradigm) and so the theory was if I worked on the sex side the intimacy would come back. Well it didn't, and I can't say if that's because my expectations of intimacy are unrealistic or because I do feel the regular sex as an obligation and that somehow comes across to him. I've come to the conclusion that for him the sex is just maintenance - he feels sub par without it but getting it doesn't actually make him feel happier or more loved or more intimate, it just scratches a physical and/or psychological itch. And of course that makes me even less excited about initiating sex I don't want.

Sometimes it works out ok and we have a good time and I go to sleep feeling optimistic things might be on the mend; but generally speaking the physical intimacy just highlights the yawning cavern between us emotionally to me and leaves me feeling very hollow and lonely. And whether we have or we haven't, daylight hours are always the same - little meaningful or light-hearted conversation, lots of moaning about this or that that displeases him, and a general air of beleagueredness that makes me feel I'm trying for nothing. Making myself unhappy just to keep him ticking over.

Which all sounds very bleak but in the centre of all this is our kids - our gorgeous wonderful kids who we both adore. If we do have a conversation it's usually about them. We work together really effectively as a parenting team - I'm the heart and he's the head, so they get their artwork cooed over, their tears hugged away and their problems listened to but also always have the right books in their book bag, savings building up in the bank, a gift for their friend's birthday party and enough milk in the fridge. We've pretty much settled on a mutually acceptable parenting style and recognise each others strengths and buttressed each others weaknesses. It's been a journey but it's quite a well oiled machine now. I feel like the kids always know what to expect of each of us and are rarely disappointed.

Stability (even a rather imperfect stability) is not something I'd lightly thrown aside based on my own experiences. But I appreciate this will be prejudicing my view of how bad is bad enough to call it a day, and also that the deep thinking and on the one hand/on the other hand type thinking I do a lot of can also be a good tactic for delaying making any decisions and this avoiding "the blame" for any unintended consequences. My mother was much more of a "feel the feeling = do the thing" kind of person, and she ended up bloody miserable, so I try and be more measured. But I am aware this could end up having measured my whole life out and my kids will still be angry and upset and troubled by the upbringing I chose for them (as a number of posters here whose parents did stay the course "for them" are now).

Anyway it helps to talk it through. If I have a problem in my life it's that I have a very busy brain and a desperate desire to connect, and for some reason have chosen a life partner of very few words and limited interest in discussion. There must be a reason for that but it can't be a good one! My head feels like it's going to explode sometimes with all the words I have to choose not to say to avoid an argument/atmosphere.

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When you said you stopped being interested in sex after your first baby, I knew it would be about him not supporting you enough. It always is. It's no small thing. If you want to support your child, you have to support the Mother. So many men don't get that. It must be so sad sharing that time with someone who isn't enjoying the baby bubble as much as you, so no wonder you would be turned off by him

I think if you need to keep everyone together then couples counselling can only be helpful for you and maybe make him aware of how his moods effect everyone.

BingoDingoDog · 29/01/2025 10:25

Which I think 'date nights' sort of set you up for which is why they feel so high pressure for us - at last, time alone to talk! ... And he has nothing to say to me, nothing to ask. It really highlights the cavern between us.

That's why I think date nights would be too much. Do something where you don't have to interact too much. If you are finding new friends maybe you can find someone take turns to babysit. Babysitters are expensive but much cheaper than the costs associated with bad marriages and getting divorced.

Ottersmith · 29/01/2025 10:30

Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 09:05

On the day to day, between us, I'd say things are... functional. We are a bit like colleagues - we share this job of children and home and we divvy up the work accordingly and usually quite amicably. Where it falls down is if I get caught up in his grumbling - either trying to solve the problem for him or trying to get him to see it as not a problem - then we both get pretty frustrated pretty quick and the atmosphere can get very tense. So I try not to do that any more. I either try to let it wash over me or I sympathise briskly and then stop engaging with it. But it does chip away at me.

Evenings are a bit weird. Sometimes we do things together, sometimes apart. But I always get the feeling when he wants to be with me he is 'putting the time in' - a bit like I do i bed - it's something he knows is important to me, and he wants to do his bit, but takes no pleasure in it. So we'll watch TV together, but if I try to start a discussion about what we watched it falls flat - lots of one word answers or 'don't know'.

Weekends and holidays are built around the children. Holidays do tend to be a bit of a danger zone because he has so much less control of his time and environment so the number of things he gets annoyed about increases, and I tend to get irritated with it quicker because 'we're supposed to be enjoying ourselves'.

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Well I would definitely holiday without him. I know people who do this who aren't on the rocks.

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 29/01/2025 10:32

You sound such a thoughtful and wise person, OP.
To me, everything you say makes sense and I can see why you are and your husband are choosing to stay in a marriage which is unfulfilling for both of you. You don't know whether splitting up would improve things for the children, and have good reason to suspect that it wouldn't. Even if you separated and both met new partners who you're happier with on a personal level, this is not guaranteed to make your children happier and could be harder for them especially if other children are brought into the family. And your next relationships might not be that happier - there is no guarantee of that either.
I'd suggest that the road of complete acceptance is the best one, and that includes accepting that DC notices that Dad is often miserable and most likely notices the same thing about you at times. Letting her voice this and acknowledging that she has a point - Dad is not often in a cheerful mood and sometimes you get down in the dumps too - will be really important for her sense of herself, and her future ability to trust her own gut. Don't make more of it than she does, but don't try to cover up with fake cheerfulness either, because she won't and should not be deceived.
Lots of children grow up to live fulfilled and happy lives despite less than ideal childhoods, as many of us have found out by experience.

Yazzi · 29/01/2025 10:34

Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 09:41

I really love this concept of 'parallel play'; it explains so much about how we used to enjoy ourselves as a couple - going to gigs, shows, and throwing parties, reading together, watching TV. A lot of that goes when you have kids, of course. And what I have always missed is what I really love best - deep, meaningful conversation. Which I think 'date nights' sort of set you up for which is why they feel so high pressure for us - at last, time alone to talk! ... And he has nothing to say to me, nothing to ask. It really highlights the cavern between us. Whereas this year we managed to go out to no less than TWO concerts together (no mean feat and OMG the COST of babysitting) but after both of those we were in a really good place. Fantastic vibe and actually great sex now I think about it. But it doesn't last.

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There's an easy fix to this OP- organise "doing" dates instead. Karaoke, pottery class, arcades, dance class, axe throwing, escape room, board game night; where you're focused on a shared activity and the pressure on the conversation is less.

rainbowstardrops · 29/01/2025 10:35

I'm sure you've talked to him 'til the cows have come home but could you have a bare-faced sit down conversation now, saying what you've said here? Maybe he doesn't see that he has a problem and is miserable to others but if he knows how low you're feeling and how you're worried it's affecting the children then maybe that might be a wake up call for him?

I'm still living with my husband but I can honestly say I wish I'd left him years ago. There was always an 'obstacle'. Kids changing schools/exams/ don't want to disrupt the kids etc etc etc.
My children are now young adults and the eldest definitely holds me largely responsible for not separating years ago. Doesn't help that my husband is Disney Dad and always, always leaves all the hard parenting to me.

Don't be me. It's a desperately unhappy life to live.

waterrat · 29/01/2025 10:41

You only get one life OP

I couldn't live with someone this emotionally and intellectually shut down.

He isn't taking responsibility for changing - you can take responsibility for building a new life and creating a happier home for your child

perhaps without the burden of being in an unhappy relationship (that he isn't prepared or able to do any work on) - he might be a happier father to her

FreeRider · 29/01/2025 10:52

I think you are gambling on the idea that if you split when your children become adults, they will look back at their childhood years and thank you for keeping the family together.

As someone whose mother did exactly that, I can tell you that there's a good chance that they won't. All I remember when I look back now is how miserable my father was, how he took it out on us, and how my mother made that possible. Everything had to be as my father wanted it, no matter how stupid his plans were, and my mother constantly going along with him meant my childhood was ruined.

My father left my mother for another woman 6 months after my younger brother turned 18. My older brother has told his wife he has no happy childhood memories - she made the mistake of telling my mother...my mother was very angry that her martyrdom wasn't appreciated. I personally feel now that she did it more for herself than for myself and my brothers.

Please listen and take seriously what your daughter has said. Living with two parents who obviously don't love each other and are miserable is very hard and not a good foundation for future relationships/mental health.

Imisschampagne · 29/01/2025 10:55

Haemagoblin · 28/01/2025 21:50

The answer to that is a very long story. My version is I have been doing everything I can to put it right and get to nothing back; he would certainly have a different version. "Date nights" are few and far between because we have young kids and no support. When we get them it can feel like a lot of pressure tbh. I think basically we are very badly suited but we're in it now and I certainly won't countenance initiating breaking up and making the kids lives exponentially more complicated unless that's what he wants. I have raised it before and he says he doesn't.

I dare say he would be a lot happier if "we" were happier; but from my perspective, one of the main reasons our relationship is on the skids is because he's so fucking miserable, grumpy and negative. So I suppose it's a bit chicken and egg.

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And what makes you think staying together is better for your children than being relieved of that dark negative energy they are experiencing every day?

I think you might be doing them a disservice. Also growing up with a bad rolemodel when it comes to relationships might affect their own ones later in life.

Original poster

Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 11:00

FreeRider · 29/01/2025 10:52

I think you are gambling on the idea that if you split when your children become adults, they will look back at their childhood years and thank you for keeping the family together.

As someone whose mother did exactly that, I can tell you that there's a good chance that they won't. All I remember when I look back now is how miserable my father was, how he took it out on us, and how my mother made that possible. Everything had to be as my father wanted it, no matter how stupid his plans were, and my mother constantly going along with him meant my childhood was ruined.

My father left my mother for another woman 6 months after my younger brother turned 18. My older brother has told his wife he has no happy childhood memories - she made the mistake of telling my mother...my mother was very angry that her martyrdom wasn't appreciated. I personally feel now that she did it more for herself than for myself and my brothers.

Please listen and take seriously what your daughter has said. Living with two parents who obviously don't love each other and are miserable is very hard and not a good foundation for future relationships/mental health.

As I've said I expect nothing from them. To me that's not how the parent/child relationship works. All I can do is make the best decisions I can with the situation I have, and be ready to hear them out if and when they have resentment or anger or sadness they need to talk through. I am fully willing and able to accept that I may be making mistakes, and that even if I am right and this is the better path, it will not leave them unscathed any more than divorce, poverty and instability would and they will be within their rights to hold me to account for that.

Really, honestly I do not see myself as a martyr or a saint. I made a bad mistake for them before they were even born; there is no perfect option now, only different kinds of fallout.

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BellissimoGecko · 29/01/2025 11:02

thismummydrinksgin · 28/01/2025 21:41

Maybe if you were in a better place he would be in better mood? Any date nights or together time on the horizon? X

Bloody hell. A man's moods are theirs alone to monitor and fix. Why do you think a woman should take on that role? It's not our job to cheer up moody men, ffs

Original poster

Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 11:03

FreeRider · 29/01/2025 10:52

I think you are gambling on the idea that if you split when your children become adults, they will look back at their childhood years and thank you for keeping the family together.

As someone whose mother did exactly that, I can tell you that there's a good chance that they won't. All I remember when I look back now is how miserable my father was, how he took it out on us, and how my mother made that possible. Everything had to be as my father wanted it, no matter how stupid his plans were, and my mother constantly going along with him meant my childhood was ruined.

My father left my mother for another woman 6 months after my younger brother turned 18. My older brother has told his wife he has no happy childhood memories - she made the mistake of telling my mother...my mother was very angry that her martyrdom wasn't appreciated. I personally feel now that she did it more for herself than for myself and my brothers.

Please listen and take seriously what your daughter has said. Living with two parents who obviously don't love each other and are miserable is very hard and not a good foundation for future relationships/mental health.

Have to say as well, your brother's wife sounds like a colossal shit stirrer. What on earth did she THINK the outcome would be of sharing that with your mother? Presumably your brother told her in confidence?

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BeQuirkyBalonz · 29/01/2025 11:17

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Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 11:21

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I think it would be pretty crappy to let your momentary irritation override your husband's confidence and privacy just to score cheap points against the MIL. That's a very serious conversation and if he wanted to have that out with his mother that should have happened at the time and in the manner of his choosing, not because his wife lost her temper.

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BeQuirkyBalonz · 29/01/2025 11:22

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Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 11:23

Well it wasn't the sister's private confidence she betrayed, it was her brother's. How he feels about that is the only thing that matters. And yes the mother was awful by the sounds of it.

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BeQuirkyBalonz · 29/01/2025 11:24

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Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 11:26

Simply because of the betrayal. Having a bad chidhood is such a fundamental pain; there's so much stigma. Finding someone you feel safe enough to share that with is a big deal. Having that person turn around and use that confidence as a bomb to throw would break my heart. I'm feeling my blood running cold and my stomach drop just thinking about it, how he must have felt when his mother turned on him for something he hadn't intended for her to know.

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babasaclover · 29/01/2025 11:28

F

StarDolphins · 29/01/2025 11:29

This (among other things) is why I left my ex. My poor DD being subjected to negative, grumpy Daddy was doing her no good at all. Too much moaning about everything then turned me into a misery, I thought I was hiding it but I wasn’t. My DD is much happier, I’m much happier & she also gets a happier Dad! I knew he would never want 50/50 though. Our set up is more like 95/5.

Original poster

Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 11:32

StarDolphins · 29/01/2025 11:29

This (among other things) is why I left my ex. My poor DD being subjected to negative, grumpy Daddy was doing her no good at all. Too much moaning about everything then turned me into a misery, I thought I was hiding it but I wasn’t. My DD is much happier, I’m much happier & she also gets a happier Dad! I knew he would never want 50/50 though. Our set up is more like 95/5.

If that was a possibility my decision would be much easier to make.

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AmaryllisNightAndDay · 29/01/2025 11:38

As pp have said, rather than a conversation-based "date night" go for a shared activity that means you don't have to talk. Whether it's a film, or something physical like a dance class. Though to be honest your marriage sounds dead and you're flogging a dead horse. You've given a very clear analysis of the situation as irretrievable but it's as if your past has paralysed you.

You are trying to take responsibility for so much. For his future state of mind - will he be happier? - and for your children's future states of mind - will they be better off? And of course if you try to predict all that you will be stuck. You are not responsible for what kind of father he is and you will find yourself trying to fill the gaps he leaves for the children whether you stay or go. Seems the gaps in "stay" are getting bigger.

So start with the here and now. You know things are bad for you and you've just seen evidence that they're not good for your children either. If anything it sounds as if things are getting worse for the children as they get older and his emotional limitations and his limited way of making contact with them breaks down further.

So it would be tough but not unreasonable to leave. Rather than trying to predict everything in advance - he said he wants 50-50 so of course he will want and get 50-50 when it happens! - you could try taking one step at a time and then deal with the new situation as you find it. You cold move towards divorce and if he does go for 50-50 and you think that's a bad idea you mitigate as best you can at the time.