To find what DC said really sad?

[Haemagoblin]

I was parking the car with my DD8 in the back, and making a bit of a hash of it. I laughed to DD "God I hope Daddy's not looking out the window, he'll be laughing at me!"

She replied "he wouldn't laugh - he doesn't even smile very much".

I find this so so sad. I mean she's not wrong, he's a bit of a gloomy person; but he does try to be a good dad, playfights with them and teases them and makes jokes,so I guess I didn't realise how much his naturally quite negative vibe was actually being picked up on by the children.

Should I talk to him about it? We are not in a very good place so I worry he'll see it as me getting at him - but if my kid had said something like that about me I'd want to know!

Have read all your posts, OP, though not the whole thread. I get why you're so conflicted. I picked this post to comment on because it seems to offer a small but simple (perhaps over simplifying?) way into all this, which is rather than to try and make big global decisions, look for things you can each / both do that you enjoy and find make you happy (or relatively happy in his case...). For example, there would be clear benefits for both of you in going to more gigs. OK the good vibe from that may not last too long. But if you go to them there'll be more of it so the whole temperature will be higher, if that makes sense? Even if nothing else you've at least had a good time for one night!

This also goes for your own activities, of course. Your new hobby sounds very good for you. And any opportunity to funnel him towards the equivalent for him would be good too.

Maybe what I'm getting at is, if you're really stuck about how to make the best decision, then try not making one. Just look for things that make the day better, one day at a time, for now. Wishing you all the best.

I agree with this - and I also think that part of the reason for this advice is that many of the middle-aged posters on MN, women in their 40s with school age kids, come from a generation when their parents were unlikely to have got divorced. When I was at school in the 80s it was still quite unusual to have divorced parents. So many posters on here are very aware of the problems of growing up in an unhappy household (and naturally want to warn others against it) but perhaps have less understanding of the alternative reality in which their parents separated, and how that might also have been difficult in different ways.

My eldest child will very definitely turn 11/12 in 3/4 years. Something pretty catastrophic would have to happen for that not to be the case.

There is an awful lot of clear blue water between "not a very emotionally continent or sensitive parent" and "could put the DC in danger". He is a good father in lots of ways, just as I am a good mother in lots of ways. But just as I can't anticipate the laundry requirements for next week in advance to save my life, he can't keep his temper if he knocks a bottle of milk across the table 5 minutes before the school run. At present we are able to compensate for these failings in each other. And without him, I think my children might be a bit more disorganised; without me, I think they might have to listen to a lot more shouting, moaning and general dramatics. I have my own view on which of those is worse, others may see it differently.

he can't keep his temper if he knocks a bottle of milk across the table 5 minutes before the school run

What happens when he loses his temper? Children can learn to ignore noise and fuss but a real loss of control is different. The sense that this adult could do anything is frightening and for good reason.

I don't have a picture of how serious this is, so I'm asking. When he loses his temper does he verbally attack and blame you or the children? Have his "dramatics" ever included anything physical e.g. punching the wall?

Noise and fuss for the most part. Can turn quite defensive and angry if I try and tell him to chill out. No physical side for a number of years - as above he hit a doorframe once in front of our eldest, and I told him if he didn't get some help and never do anything like that again I'd leave him. GP and CBT. Never happened again and he doesn't shout anymore. But all the groaning and "oooooh Good!" and flapping about and dramatics are quite stress inducing (for me at least).

I couldn't agree more strongly with this. No child should ever feel the burden of their parents' decisions in this way. That's our job.

Whatever you decide, OP, you're obviously a caring mother who is doing her best, in less than ideal circumstances, to do the right thing by her children. If your relationship with your children is anything like my own and my sibling had with our late mother, they should grow up well aware of this.

Honestly soooo this👆having come from a family where parents stayed together and, upon reflection, were not well suited! Yes dad was grumpy, yes life was difficult but we weren’t abused and were glad they stayed together and we had one home.

Life is not perfect, humans are not perfect. Your parents are not perfect & when you realise that you grow up. Get. Over. It!
If you chose to have children. Give them as much stability in early life as possible. I’m grateful my parents made the effort for us.

OP’s OH sounds driven to achieve so nothing is ever going to be enough. He’s always pushing on, pushing for unachievable perfection.

Don’t you think, at the back of his mind, is the realisation that everything in the future is going to have to be split 50/50 upon separation?
That alone would drive him to accrue as much financial security as possible to share around if he is a decent man.

If your life is not totally unbearable, stay OP until and the eldest is launched and you feel the youngest is sufficiently grounded and you’re able to focus on them.

Why do you thinkhe wouldn't be open to professional help? If he was OK doing therapy for anger issues that leans he isn't anti support. Was the anger issue ongoing since you met?

OK, I see your dilemma. It's not good but it's not immediate "get out of there" territory. He was able to make some changes.But people (esp men) with autism often struggle to make anything of therapy. Emotional inarticulacy kind of goes with the territory.

If he doesn't tend to direct his complaints specifically against you or the children or insult you / put you down, would it help for you to have some therapy by yourself to develop some resilience strategies for his moaning and groaning and the amateur dramatics?

It definitely would! Something I need to look into I think for sure. I did have a counsellor once who asked me to consider "what if you didn't care?" And I lost my patience recently and went a week really trying not to be bothered about him - civil and cooperative but if he was going off on one just to tune it out and not respond to the feeling the arises that I have to make things better for him /smooth things over for the kids. It was actually a very relaxed week and nobody died. I could certainly do a lot more work on myself.

The anger issue was ongoing but quite secret - he dated my friend before me who talked about his temper but I honestly didn’t know what she was talking about, he seemed so quiet and self effacing. I was young. Now I know exactly what she was talking bout but it only comes out if he’s comfortable with you - he either shuts down or explodes, and the more familiar he is with you the more it tends to explode.

I have talked to him about medication before and he is dead against it - he thinks it is about suppressing who he is. And he has said before he thinks I would have “the upper hand “ in couples therapy because I can think of faster and talk better than him so he doesn’t think it would be fair or helpful.

it only comes out if he’s comfortable with you - he either shuts down or explodes, and the more familiar he is with you the more it tends to explode.

Is that a danger ahead for the children?

Gosh, this is so familiar! I feel a constant need to smooth things over, restore a happy atmosphere and make it alright. I think DH actually experiences this as invalidating his feelings - maybe if I can't seem to achieve the 'don't care about the atmosphere, let it wash over you' I should do for him what I do for the kids - 'Oh no, there's milk all over the table! You didn't want that, now you have something else to do and you're worried we're going to be late! How frustrating!'
Wonder how he'd react.

This is pretty much what I'm doing now! :P it does seem, if not to help, stop things escalating. The only obstacle will be if I manage to keep it up, because the stress does get to me and it grows and then it catches me on a bad hormones day and I'll lose my patience or fall back into my usual habit of trying to 'fix' things and then we're back in the old cycle. So I've never kept it up long enough to see what the long term outcome might be.

Well I wasn't serious but maybe I WILL try it. Yesterday he came home in a right grump for some reason. We'd been having a lovely time playing and toys were all over the floor. I'd taken out the recycling and started dinner and was preening myself for being so considerate of him and then he came home and started scowling around and ordering the kids to tidy up. After a while of everyone scurrying about with the atmosphere completely ruined my 8 year old called me into her room and whispered 'I didn't want Daddy to come home.' 😑