To find what DC said really sad?

[Haemagoblin]

I was parking the car with my DD8 in the back, and making a bit of a hash of it. I laughed to DD "God I hope Daddy's not looking out the window, he'll be laughing at me!"

She replied "he wouldn't laugh - he doesn't even smile very much".

I find this so so sad. I mean she's not wrong, he's a bit of a gloomy person; but he does try to be a good dad, playfights with them and teases them and makes jokes,so I guess I didn't realise how much his naturally quite negative vibe was actually being picked up on by the children.

Should I talk to him about it? We are not in a very good place so I worry he'll see it as me getting at him - but if my kid had said something like that about me I'd want to know!

On the day to day, between us, I'd say things are... functional. We are a bit like colleagues - we share this job of children and home and we divvy up the work accordingly and usually quite amicably. Where it falls down is if I get caught up in his grumbling - either trying to solve the problem for him or trying to get him to see it as not a problem - then we both get pretty frustrated pretty quick and the atmosphere can get very tense. So I try not to do that any more. I either try to let it wash over me or I sympathise briskly and then stop engaging with it. But it does chip away at me.

Evenings are a bit weird. Sometimes we do things together, sometimes apart. But I always get the feeling when he wants to be with me he is 'putting the time in' - a bit like I do i bed - it's something he knows is important to me, and he wants to do his bit, but takes no pleasure in it. So we'll watch TV together, but if I try to start a discussion about what we watched it falls flat - lots of one word answers or 'don't know'.

Weekends and holidays are built around the children. Holidays do tend to be a bit of a danger zone because he has so much less control of his time and environment so the number of things he gets annoyed about increases, and I tend to get irritated with it quicker because 'we're supposed to be enjoying ourselves'.

The problem is two is not an option for me. He won't just evaporate into thin air and leave me with the children if we split. He is a very involved father and would want 50/50. So even with the best prevailing wind I could only offer them "a happy life without him" half the time.

We are in the trenches right now (40, two primary age kids, work stresses etc) so there is the possibility that as the pressures on us ease we will be able to shake down together better.

I was struck by this OP, as I think young primary age is a stage where many people are feeling the pressures lift a bit, and describe it as an easier stage than others. It is less physically exhausting and relentless than babies and pre school years, but you haven't yet reached the emotional complexities of pre teen and teen years.

That's obviously a total generalisation and I'm not discounting work pressures, nor saying you're wrong to feel in the trenches. More that I think it's unlikely you'll feel parenting pressures lift for quite a while - if anything they may get harder or at least more complicated.

I have kids your age and a young teen - they all have different parenting challenges, but it's the teen who causes most difficult conversations with my (slightly grumpy) DH. It's relatively easy to agree a joint approach on discipline and boundaries for younger kids but we have slightly different mindsets on how to support the teen emotionally or at school, and it also brings up my own feelings about being a teenager and also unresolved things I'm still working through, so it all can become quite delicate.

Having said all that I do(again) appreciate work stress can be a major factor, things are much harder with me and DH when either or both are stressed.

I was also struck by your description of him being driven and ambitious and always looking for perfection. I would be thinking about how this might impact your kids as they get older, what expectations will he have of them? How will the sense that things are never good enough impact them? How might you discuss that with him now before they hit big pressure moments in their lives?

I don't have advice for your wider situation, just sympathy and respect as it sounds really tough and you clearly are doing a lot of work to reflect and keep things as stable and positive as possible.

On the specific question of whether to tell him, in theory I think it might be helpful to let him know if his attitude is impacting them, but in reality I have no advice no how to approach it constructively.

I know they will be loved and cared for. But I also know that he will get stressed out, frustrated, and for all I know angry - he doesn't expose this side of himself to them anymore because I have it as a hard boundary that if he does I will leave him. But if I actually did, then without the restraint of my disapproval I think he would not work so hard to control his temper as he doesn't see it as a 'big deal', that it's normal for people to get angry and shout. I think he finds my unwillingness to put up with it around the kids quite controlling and thinks that I am oversensitive to it. He also doesn't have any patience with their feelings, so their emotional needs would get neglected. Just as, when living with just me, they might frequently find they are out of clean school uniform because I forgot to do the laundry. I have my own view on which of those things are more important but mileage may vary.

Well yes. I can. That's why I started the thread. But it's not like I can guarantee he will be magically happier without me, or that whatever lifestyle is conducive to his happiness will be conducive to theirs.

It’s better to offer them 50% of their time happy without him than stick with 0% happy because they live with him all the time.

Also you say you’re worried that if you split the children will have to spend their time with him and it may be impacted negatively because of his moods and behaviour….at least then they will be able to come home to you and say “I don’t want to go to daddy’s anymore because of A,B and C.”

But right now they don’t have that choice because they are forced to live with him every day and there is no other home to escape to.

That makes it sound like an equation and it simply isn't. Parental separation is in and of itself an ACE, quite apart from what the respective home lives are like subsequently. And if they have a difficult time at their fathers', it's not like that just switches off the second they walk through my door.

So they tell me that and then I... what? withold them from him? Get taken to court? they are 4 and 8. So the youngest's perspective would not be taken into account for at least 6-7 years. Not to mention the total breakdown in co-parenting that would no doubt take place if I tried to withold his young daughters from him, accusations of parental alienation etc. Really, honestly, I have thought this all through every way and there is no easy answer.

Less important than theirs. As simple as. I chose this situation, they didn't. So Every decision I make has to be with THEM in mind front and centre, not me.

My parents did separate. My mum left, my dad got full custody, and then set up another dysfunctional home with my stepmum.

... and then tell him what she said

Reading your posts OP I can't help wondering whether there is some middle ground to be had, between splitting and staying in an unhappy relationship. How do you think your DH would respond to the idea of you living together more honestly?

What I mean is, could you separate amicably, and accept the relationship between you isn't meant to be, but continue living in the same house and coparenting until the DC are a lot older? This would obviously depend on whether you have enough space to have separate rooms, and whether you would both feel comfortable, but it strikes me that it might feel better than trying to flog the dead horse that is your relationship?

It is. As i say, he's not a bad person or a bad father. In lots of ways I feel very sorry for him. If there's such a thing as a 'good enough mother', which we are all encouraged to accept as just that, good enough, instead of holding ourselves to unrealistic standards of perfection - he is a 'good enough father'. He provides, he shows up, he loves them, he shows affection, he takes care of their basic needs, he plays with them, he does his share (and more!) of the mental load and household chores. The problems, such as they are, aren't really about his parenting but about his own wellbeing/attitude.

Pretty much sums it up 😂