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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find what DC said really sad?

266 replies

Haemagoblin · 28/01/2025 21:37

I was parking the car with my DD8 in the back, and making a bit of a hash of it. I laughed to DD "God I hope Daddy's not looking out the window, he'll be laughing at me!"

She replied "he wouldn't laugh - he doesn't even smile very much".

I find this so so sad. I mean she's not wrong, he's a bit of a gloomy person; but he does try to be a good dad, playfights with them and teases them and makes jokes,so I guess I didn't realise how much his naturally quite negative vibe was actually being picked up on by the children.

Should I talk to him about it? We are not in a very good place so I worry he'll see it as me getting at him - but if my kid had said something like that about me I'd want to know!

OP posts:
Calmhappyandhealthy · 29/01/2025 07:47

Where there is no abuse then children living with both their parents is best. Research bears this out also I believe

I'd be so interested in reading this research. Do you have a couple of links, please?

Mama2many73 · 29/01/2025 07:50

You are overseeing and protecting your children now from the negativity emitting from your husband. Although you do deserve happiness I 100% understand your concerns of them being in a home with their dad 50% of the time without you buffering their relationships/interactions.
Obviously noone knows how your husband will be if you split. He could continue in his current path, or without the stress of an adult relationship he may be less anxious / depressed or it could go the other way and become more difficult for them. I get the 'better the devil you know' situation.

All you can do is follow the path YOU believe is best for them . I know, because of your own childhood, you will be putting your children first and accepting your relationship/ happiness will be put on the back burner.

I think I'd talk to your husband about what your DD said and ask if there's anything you can both do for them, each other, the family to improve the situation.
Do you think hed be up to discussing all possibilities, including splitting, going over pros and cons.

Calmhappyandhealthy · 29/01/2025 07:50

bananastraightener · 29/01/2025 07:35

OP, I'm sorry you're unhappy and that he isn't the person you need.

I think people saying leave him and the children will be happier are missing the point though. Even amicable divorce damages children really badly. I don't think there's an easy solution and ultimately it sounds like that will happen in the end regardless.

Amicable divorce damages children really badly

Would you mind pointing me in the direction of this research, please?

GameOfJones · 29/01/2025 07:57

It is a difficult one because living with a moody, miserable Eeyore will affect the children too. My best friend suffers with depression and says that growing up with her depressed mum who was never happy affected her massively and contributed to her (poor) outlook on life. Her parents are still together and her dad is a lovely person but you can't always mitigate for one parent draining the happiness out of everything.

Slowontheup · 29/01/2025 07:57

What about sex/intimacy OP? Is there any of that? My relationship is kind of similar and I feel we have improved things quite a bit by getting back to that after a loooong time of not managing due to young kids. (we still have young kids, and I just mean like once a week or something, nothing too mad!)

SheridansPortSalut · 29/01/2025 07:58

Are you sure that staying with this grumpy man with anger issues is the best option for your kids?

FirmHam · 29/01/2025 08:01

Wish44 · 29/01/2025 07:44

I completely agree with this op. Splitting up is a huge risk ( mine did and it was shit for loads of reasons). Where there is no abuse then children living with both their parents is best. Research bears this out also I believe.

he is miserable! So what… so are loads of people. The kids will see him for who he is. They will also see he loves them and tries. They will accept him and because you are so reflective they will probably be as well. They will be able to learn from him with your guidance… as in what if they inherit the depression gene they will see what happens if they don’t treat it etc.

you and the kids just get on with your lives and he can be miserable in the background. Much better than being skint, moving between houses, having step parents and blended families etc.

@Wish44 you say you’re single and have a 3.5 year old so you think you and your daughter would be happier if you hadn’t split?

IButtleSir · 29/01/2025 08:11

FirmHam · 29/01/2025 08:01

@Wish44 you say you’re single and have a 3.5 year old so you think you and your daughter would be happier if you hadn’t split?

This is a very insensitive question given you have no idea of the circumstances of @Wish44's break up.

Wish44 · 29/01/2025 08:15

FirmHam · 29/01/2025 08:01

@Wish44 you say you’re single and have a 3.5 year old so you think you and your daughter would be happier if you hadn’t split?

I am not sure how to answer this without detailing the ops thread ….. but my circumstances were and are entirely different to the ops….obviously

Priddy · 29/01/2025 08:16

raysan · 28/01/2025 23:40

You deserve to be happy. People (smart, loving people) have left marriages for less reasons than you have. The two i personally know have been loving life ever since taking the plunge.
You could try the book "too bad to stay, too good to go" (or something like that).

I'm very wary of this glib 'You deserve to be happy' kind of comment. I'm a contented sort of person — usually able to find the positive or funny side of most things — in a happy-ish sort of relationship and without many worries or responsibilities, and even in my fairly uncomplicated life moments of intense happiness are relatively few and far between. The best, much of the time, is a vague feeling of contentment. I have low points and terrible days just like anyone else. I've seen a number of people chase happiness in their lives, thinking it's always around the next corner. I suspect happiness resides, to a great extent, within. Good luck finding what it is you need, OP.

Opinionsprettyplease · 29/01/2025 08:17

I'm in the same situation op and am also heartened to read something other than the usual simplistic thinking that it's damaging to stay together and that children would be better off after a split.
Also much of this advice stems from the 80's/90's, when a house could be bought for what, a year's salary? Compared to now, where many couples barely manage to keep a roof over their heads with a combined income, and would genuinely risk homelessness separately. Poverty in childhood does huge psychological damage.
Not saying it's not worth it in cases of abuse or violence, but not necessarily any more the better option where the worst that's happening is "bad modelling of relationships".

Wish44 · 29/01/2025 08:20

Calmhappyandhealthy · 29/01/2025 07:47

Where there is no abuse then children living with both their parents is best. Research bears this out also I believe

I'd be so interested in reading this research. Do you have a couple of links, please?

I don’t know how to do a link - but just google divorce effect in children and it will come up. Importantly it is statistical evidence looking at large numbers of families. It doesn’t predict outcomes in individual cases but it certainly confirms children who come from divorced families have worse outcomes .

that doesn’t mean people should avoid divorce at all costs. It just means they should include the negative impact of divorce in their decision making…. Like the op is

Busywithsomething · 29/01/2025 08:20

I wish I could help. Just read your latest posts and still can't add much. You want to be a good role model for your kids, you want to be honest and you think it's hurting them if they see you ( and him probably) as unhappy together.

All I can suggest is you think what attracted you to him and is he still that same person? If he could move through this phase would you still love him? Totally understand why you wouldn't rock the boat if you think you could one day get back to that. I don't see it as related to gender norms. A large number of marriages go through this and it's not a reflection of the patriarchy or anything as I'm sure plenty men are going through the motions and living their lives vicariously hoping things will change. You don't have to make him happy but he needs to get himself straight if he is deep down always depressed and gloomy. I don't think people change that much, for what that's worth. All the best OP, we're all rooting for you.

Bestfootforward11 · 29/01/2025 08:26

Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 04:47

I guess the issue is I was the child in the 80s of parents who split (as they should, they were poorly suited) and life was pretty shit then too and it has led to lots of problems for me. Splitting up opens the door to a lot of unknowns - what if he gets another partner who isn't good to my kids? What if they have more kids and my girls feel replaced/pushed out? What if losing his family life makes him even more miserable and they have to deal with that on their own? And even in the best case having to move between two houses neither of which is your permanent home is destabilising. Breaking up does not guarantee a better situation for my kids, and reduces the amount I can control that/protect them.

I wish there was a "winning" option, but the way I've stacked the deck for them means it's just different flavours of less than ideal.

Hello. I’m really not sure what the best thing to do is here. But just to offer an alternative perspective in response to your last post. My parents did not divorce (and are still together) but the impact on me has been quite negative is some respects. I have never had any doubt that they love me and my siblings and now I am older I can see more clearly why they found life hard. But the imprint of the dynamic and its impact is really hard to shake. My norm is a feeling of being constantly on edge, of trying to achieve to get some kind of approval and not to rock the boat. I find it very hard now to communicate with my DH when we face challenges because I feel I don’t know how healthy communication works. This might sound like a bit of therapy speak but it’s what I’m trying to work out myself. And I’m absolutely not trying to say I have no personal responsibility, I do. But I do think kids pick up on energies and patterns. I’m sure you’re alive to that anyway but I just wanted to mention.

Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 08:33

Slowontheup · 29/01/2025 07:57

What about sex/intimacy OP? Is there any of that? My relationship is kind of similar and I feel we have improved things quite a bit by getting back to that after a loooong time of not managing due to young kids. (we still have young kids, and I just mean like once a week or something, nothing too mad!)

An enormous bone of contention (as it were).

Lost my libido after first baby, followed by a quote traumatic bereavement - previously sex had been out mainstay in the relationship as a way of bonding and reconciliation, so I definitely take responsibility for letting that slide and it did lead to a breakdown in our relationship from his side - but then again from my pov, the relationship took a battering from the early days of first baby when I felt incredibly uncared for and abandoned. He struggled a lot to adapt to parenthood, DESPISED the baby stage while I was utterly wrapped up in it. Looking back I think my expectations if us being equal parents were unrealistic, but there are some wounds from that time which have never healed because he is totally unwilling to discuss it as an issue, much less apologise. It was around this time the relationship really began to struggle. I imagine this is far from uncommon.

So anyway sex became infrequent because I fully bought into the feminist notion that I shouldn't have sex I wasn't enthusiastic about; I'm older and wiser now and know I should probably have kept it up, because now the dynamic is all fucked up - he got fed up asking and being turned down, I got fed up feeling pestered, and it all festered and blew up at regular intervals.

We had some good deep talks about it after things came to a head - this was the incident some years ago where we discussed separating, and he made it clear how big an issue the sex was for him and how unhappy it was making him, but felt he couldn't say so because he didn't want to be a creep, and now didn't feel comfortable initiating. I really wanted to acknowledge this, so made the effort to initiate a couple of times a week.

The discussion we'd had was that I didn't want sex because I didn't feel any intimacy, and he didn't feel any intimacy because we weren't having sex (classic stereotypical gendered paradigm) and so the theory was if I worked on the sex side the intimacy would come back. Well it didn't, and I can't say if that's because my expectations of intimacy are unrealistic or because I do feel the regular sex as an obligation and that somehow comes across to him. I've come to the conclusion that for him the sex is just maintenance - he feels sub par without it but getting it doesn't actually make him feel happier or more loved or more intimate, it just scratches a physical and/or psychological itch. And of course that makes me even less excited about initiating sex I don't want.

Sometimes it works out ok and we have a good time and I go to sleep feeling optimistic things might be on the mend; but generally speaking the physical intimacy just highlights the yawning cavern between us emotionally to me and leaves me feeling very hollow and lonely. And whether we have or we haven't, daylight hours are always the same - little meaningful or light-hearted conversation, lots of moaning about this or that that displeases him, and a general air of beleagueredness that makes me feel I'm trying for nothing. Making myself unhappy just to keep him ticking over.

Which all sounds very bleak but in the centre of all this is our kids - our gorgeous wonderful kids who we both adore. If we do have a conversation it's usually about them. We work together really effectively as a parenting team - I'm the heart and he's the head, so they get their artwork cooed over, their tears hugged away and their problems listened to but also always have the right books in their book bag, savings building up in the bank, a gift for their friend's birthday party and enough milk in the fridge. We've pretty much settled on a mutually acceptable parenting style and recognise each others strengths and buttressed each others weaknesses. It's been a journey but it's quite a well oiled machine now. I feel like the kids always know what to expect of each of us and are rarely disappointed.

Stability (even a rather imperfect stability) is not something I'd lightly thrown aside based on my own experiences. But I appreciate this will be prejudicing my view of how bad is bad enough to call it a day, and also that the deep thinking and on the one hand/on the other hand type thinking I do a lot of can also be a good tactic for delaying making any decisions and this avoiding "the blame" for any unintended consequences. My mother was much more of a "feel the feeling = do the thing" kind of person, and she ended up bloody miserable, so I try and be more measured. But I am aware this could end up having measured my whole life out and my kids will still be angry and upset and troubled by the upbringing I chose for them (as a number of posters here whose parents did stay the course "for them" are now).

Anyway it helps to talk it through. If I have a problem in my life it's that I have a very busy brain and a desperate desire to connect, and for some reason have chosen a life partner of very few words and limited interest in discussion. There must be a reason for that but it can't be a good one! My head feels like it's going to explode sometimes with all the words I have to choose not to say to avoid an argument/atmosphere.

OP posts:
HipToTheHopDontStop · 29/01/2025 08:34

FirmHam · 29/01/2025 06:18

I certainly won't countenance initiating breaking up and making the kids lives exponentially more complicated unless that's what he wants.

”more complicated” perhaps logistically
but a damn sight happier in every other respect I would guess

Edited

Easy for you to guess. Easy for everyone here to flippantly advjse leaving, but OP knows its not that simple.
Splitting up isn't the easy answer. Sometimes it really is better to stay together for the children.

BeQuirkyBalonz · 29/01/2025 08:35

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BeQuirkyBalonz · 29/01/2025 08:38

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Calmhappyandhealthy · 29/01/2025 08:44

@Haemagoblin ....you could consider writing a book (maybe not about marriage🤣)

Your writing style is exquisite 👌

I won't give any more advice/thoughts, but if you need a friend, please message me 🥰❤️

Crazybaby123 · 29/01/2025 08:44

Kids will pick up on the negative vibes, iys better to be apart than happy yhan together and miserable. I would set say a 3 or 6 month deadline with him to turn it around. Both of you get a hobby that you can anjoy once a week out the house separately and get a baby sitter one a fortnite dsay and do someyhing together, if not a meal then something. If you can repair yhen great, if you can't then leave.

BeQuirkyBalonz · 29/01/2025 08:45

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Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 08:51

Busywithsomething · 29/01/2025 08:20

I wish I could help. Just read your latest posts and still can't add much. You want to be a good role model for your kids, you want to be honest and you think it's hurting them if they see you ( and him probably) as unhappy together.

All I can suggest is you think what attracted you to him and is he still that same person? If he could move through this phase would you still love him? Totally understand why you wouldn't rock the boat if you think you could one day get back to that. I don't see it as related to gender norms. A large number of marriages go through this and it's not a reflection of the patriarchy or anything as I'm sure plenty men are going through the motions and living their lives vicariously hoping things will change. You don't have to make him happy but he needs to get himself straight if he is deep down always depressed and gloomy. I don't think people change that much, for what that's worth. All the best OP, we're all rooting for you.

In terms of what first attracted me - well not to be shallow, but he is very beautiful. Unfortunately we got together in our very early 20s (university housemates turned lovers) - we were much better friends than we have ever been a couple, similar interests, liked the same books and bands, had similar hobbies. We were both on the rebound as our uni relationships ended about the same time; he was relatively inexperienced romantically and so i think would have gone for anyone willing, and I was young, fucked up and a bit rudderless and lost after uni ended and desperate for love (my dodgy background coming out again, he was far from the only or the worst emotionally unavailable man I dated back in those days).

It was the sort of decision half-baked, damaged 20 year olds make, i.e. not a wise one; but somehow it stuck. Life starts - jobs, flats, friendship groups, trying to make enough money to live on, bereavements, accidents, family drama - it's all a bit scary and real and I guess we clung on to each other in the storm. We were actually reasonably settled when we decided to have a baby, having learned each others' boundaries and ways a bit, but then that blew us to bits.

If we met today, there's not a chance in hell we'd get together. But then we wouldn't be who we are now if we met now, because after almost 20 years (formative years really, the whole of early adulthood ) - we've influenced each other and built ourselves around the fact of our relationship. He's shaped me and I've shaped him. I love him because of course I do. It's like you love your family, not because of who they are but because of what they are.

OP posts:
MilitantFawcett · 29/01/2025 08:53

I was very struck by your comment that you dread relying on him as you age or when you need support. I would just note that life can be very unpredictable and this might not be a problem for the future. What happens if one of you has a life changing illness or accident? What if one or both of you lose your jobs? You need to make sure you and your children have other strategies and structures in place to give you have the support you need. From personal experience, being a team is more valuable to one’s children than anything else.

DaisyChain505 · 29/01/2025 08:56

Your very young daughter is aware of how miserable her father is.

You have two options:

  1. You stay because you think you’re doing what’s best for the kids only for them to grow up and tell you they wish you’d left him years ago and they spent years feeling on edge in a toxic household.

  2. You leave and create a happy life without him which enables your children to be able to relax In their own home which should be their safe space.

Haemagoblin · 29/01/2025 08:58

Bestfootforward11 · 29/01/2025 08:26

Hello. I’m really not sure what the best thing to do is here. But just to offer an alternative perspective in response to your last post. My parents did not divorce (and are still together) but the impact on me has been quite negative is some respects. I have never had any doubt that they love me and my siblings and now I am older I can see more clearly why they found life hard. But the imprint of the dynamic and its impact is really hard to shake. My norm is a feeling of being constantly on edge, of trying to achieve to get some kind of approval and not to rock the boat. I find it very hard now to communicate with my DH when we face challenges because I feel I don’t know how healthy communication works. This might sound like a bit of therapy speak but it’s what I’m trying to work out myself. And I’m absolutely not trying to say I have no personal responsibility, I do. But I do think kids pick up on energies and patterns. I’m sure you’re alive to that anyway but I just wanted to mention.

What's strange is I'm exactly the same way (feeling of being constantly on edge, of trying to achieve to get some kind of approval and not to rock the boat) and I have always very much put it down to that feeling of abandonment my parents separating left me with. But equally it could have been the bad relationship my dad and stepmum had when I was young (as we lived with him full time). And then my older sister wen through the same but has come out of it hard as nails, fiercely independent, with zero time for minding other people's delicate feelings and and absolute need to be in control. It's so hard to unpick these things. And to know which bad choice is the least bad.

One thing I am very alive to is that my children (whatever i do) will have their own perspective on the choices I made with their best interests at heart. And they will be entitled to their feelings, and quite possibly their resentment and anger. I want to make sure they always know I respect that, and don't ever give a martyred 'after all I've suffered for you' vibe in their adulthood. But they could end up being you, or me, whichever path I choose.

OP posts:
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