Should the father of the 4 Hoath boys also be charged with manslaughter?

[Inkyblue123]

Just that really - he abandoned those 4 kids to the care of someone he knew had psychiatric problems and living in filth.once again the judicial system punished a women while overlooking the broader systematic failures and the responsibilities of others.
YANBU - he should stand trial
YABU - he’s not responsible for this tragedy

Why are we not prepared to take children away from parents like this and put them up for adoption as babies? 4 children died, needlessly, because of this couple and because of her actions. They could have been adopted as babies and living in safe homes where they were loved and cared for.

Thankyou. I have a GC born in 2018 and the HV in the new area where my DD moved to in 2020 had no idea of his existence in 2022 when his brother was born. There were definitely gaps in safety nets because of the pandemic visits not done etc.
In our case DDs HV has since gone above and beyond with GS.

This isn't how it works

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Feels like the single struggling mum is always the one blamed. I feel so sad for the boys. Feel like the dad's family didn't care that much until it was too late.

I don't think the dad is culpable but I think her sentencing should have taken into account her psychiatric state, disabilities and lack of support.

I feel angry the way the dad is presenting himself as a victim when he was clearly very absent when it mattered. The victims are the boys.

dont know what he was suppose to do to prevent her going out shopping an lying thhat someone was babysitting-people risked their lives ccheking for someone else

If you read the sentencing remarks, they make it clear how much she's suffered and is suffering, including in terms of ill health. The punishment is probably just. She's not going to come out of prison and live any sort of happy life, she already has a "life" sentence of sorts.

I imagine it did as she has been given an incredibly short term for causing the death of four children, its only 2.5 years per child.

It's ten years per child running concurrently

Indeed.

I do think it was a harsh sentence but I also think that it was exacerbated by the fact she lied about ‘Jade’ being inside. I understand this but I also think it’s harsh to judge for a moment of panic.

She has a life- 4 children lost theirs because of her. It isn't just.

Don’t be ridiculous. It’s on the mother. Some women on here will do anything to put the blame on a man.

Like most things it’s more complex than that.

I would personally say that four children lost their lives because of numerous adults; not just her. Neglect and cruelty to children is a societal issue. There has not been one case in the last thirty years I can think of where the final outcome might have been the culpability of an individual or individuals but others bear responsibility too.

In this case it’s even less clear cut. It’s that chain of events, for want of a nail. My personal opinion is that she is deserving of both pity and compassion. But perhaps that’s a bit too uncomfortable.

Everyone in those children's lives let them down. They were dealt a shitty hand in life. The 'step grandmother' who looks about 28 reading out the statement wtf

What’s really annoying about a lot of the finger pointers on this thread is that I bet they’d be the first to sneer at twins called Kyson and Bryson and comment on what they were dressed in and not stopped to consider that their situation at home was abject poverty with a mother only just holding it together and a pretty much absent father.

Others bear some culpability for her being allowed to have the boys in her care when she should not have had any contact with them, but she bears responsibility for their death.

I have pity for her but can not feel any compassion for her.

Oh I completely agree, a lot of people only care about poor children when they’re dead. They wouldn’t dream of doing anything to actually benefit children in need.

I disagree with that.

By all accounts, the boys were loved, she was present and available for the first very nearly five years of their lives. She was there.

I remember some years ago now that I did something at work which retrospectively I now can’t quite believe I did but at the time my head was such a mess I was doing all sorts of things. As it was, nothing came of it which was pure luck really.

I am not saying nothing further should happen. But I do think that further actions should be borne with compassion and common sense. I also disagree the boys ‘should not have had any contact with her.’ That would have been far more harmful than the alternative.

I suspect what happened was she was living in near poverty. I don’t have twins myself but I remember reading a thread on here and someone linked to the statistics re the extra costs associated with twins, and she had two sets, one year apart.

So she was living in near poverty and I know myself when you’re living in awful conditions there’s little incentive to keep things clean and tidy because it just looks awful anyway. And then things break and don’t work and it’s either a crap landlord or she’s worried about kicking up a fuss because it’s London and hens teeth or she’s just so depressed and exhausted. Or all the above. And gradually the lights go and things stop working and it’s a mess.

The problem is that becomes your ‘norm.’ And you just stop seeing it.

And then this happens and it was awful and it was wrong but there is no fucking way this poor woman should have been left with two two year olds and two one year olds in lockdown with no respite or relief. I’m not surprised she did awful things to try to cling on to whatever tiny bits of sanity she had left. I suspect the fact the boys weren’t attending nursery or school was a sign of things massively deteriorating.

My personal opinion is that she is deserving of both pity and compassion. But perhaps that’s a bit too uncomfortable

I agree with this. Society criminally punishing and solely (legally) blaming the struggling mum is just scapegoating.
It’s a much wider social culpability than hers.

I imahine she had benefits capped at two but had four children to pay for. Probably no car, so had to juggle shopping and four toddlers every time she needed food in.

It’s two births so she won’t have but even so it will have been a huge, huge financial burden and she will have struggled. And do we think the father contributed a penny, students at the back?

I agree. I’d be on my knees trying to look after four young children on my own, so god knows how a woman already suffering mental health problems would cope. The father should bear a lot of the blame.

Ok thanks for the correction @freeatthemoment

I agree. There is a division of culpability here.

She is responsible for their deaths in that she left them alone, without an adult, and they died because of her actions (both in leaving them alone and in creating the fire risk they faced).

But it's interesting that she was cleared of neglect. The jury accepted that she loved her children and was generally doing her best to care for them in the circumstances that she and they found themselves in.

So who bears the blame for those circumstances then? Social services? The dad for not practically and materially supporting his kids sufficiently? The wider family? The benefits system? This was a women who, despite having poor health and four young children to care for, also worked part-time until the lead-up to their deaths. She was coping with a lot and, for a while, she was doing ok. And when she started struggling and stopped doing ok, she reached out for help that wasn't there.

She's rightly been held to account for her responsibility for the death of her children. But the process of accountability shouldn't stop there. The role of those who were responsible for the children's neglect - the dad, social services etc. - also needs to be examined. Because the mum was cleared of neglect - it wasn't her who neglected her kids, according to the law.

Who should be held responsible for the neglect that these children suffered?

They probably would have had to go into a care/foster placement first and there are very very few.
I was speaking to a Social Worker about a child last week and he said that the childs (difficult) living situation was better than any care place he could put him in. There were no suitable Foster spaces for him in the entire country and only a couple in group homes that would not be the best thing for him

To the people saying the children should have been removed from her care - it's so hard to get a court order to remove children.

There is also a real lack of foster carers.

There are thousands and thousands of women living like this up & down the country - single mum, poor housing, no money, mental health issues.

She popped out to Sainsbury's, thinking the boys would be fine. And had she not left the candles lit, they probably would have been. Many parents do this sort of thing. The McCanns are also guilty of this.

The parents in these two cases paid the ultimate price of course.