Should the father of the 4 Hoath boys also be charged with manslaughter?

[Inkyblue123]

Just that really - he abandoned those 4 kids to the care of someone he knew had psychiatric problems and living in filth.once again the judicial system punished a women while overlooking the broader systematic failures and the responsibilities of others.
YANBU - he should stand trial
YABU - he’s not responsible for this tragedy

We don't know enough to be able to judge.
On here, nearly on a daily basis, mothers told to meet their ex on neutral ground, not allowing him to the home. Boundaries etc
Would he have had anywhere to take them? Did he have a home suitable to take them to? A dad turning up at housing to say he needs a 3 bed house as he wants his kids who are with their mother would be laughed straight to the HMO lists of private room rentals or handed a sleeping bag!
As usual, support services weren't there for the mother. She may have been ill or immature or both..who knows.
Hindsight is such a wonderful gift.

What a terribly sad case. Beautiful boys.

How many of us could cope alone with four under four? I definitely could not. She may not have planned to have twins each time.

The mother went to the GP during COVID and said she couldn't cope. Don't know if any help was forthcoming or not?

But she was acting responsibly then by doing that. I don't know if that is what triggered SS involvement.

I shouldn't judge because I don't know enough about the case but there have obviously been wider failings than hers alone. Of course she failed them fundamentally by going to the shop for unnecessary items and leaving them alone.

I assume she looked after them for many more days and nights than their father though. She was at least looking after them I mean. Poor children and poor woman. I think it's too easy to blame her alone.

Yes, she was clearly an unfit mother, and the father was a dead beat dad, the relatives, pond-life all soaking up the sympathy on FB were dead beat relatives.
No one cared enough to intervene, all dumb as rocks polishing their halos on FB where the dumb as rocks pondlife people hang out

We don't (I think) know what the circumstances behind the split were or any arrangements that were in place. There is a problem with fathers who don't take responsibility, but there's also a problem with fathers who either represent a danger to their kids/ex or are perceived as doing so by the mother. We simply don't know the circumstances here.

On this particular case - we don’t know enough to judge.

Morally, I think fathers who actually abandon their children should be charged with child neglect. But practically that would likely lead to worse outcomes for children since fathers who don’t give a shit about them will go through the motions to get out of being charged. That would mean more children would spend more time in the care of unfit parents - because Social Services does not have the resources to follow up on the parents it needs to now let alone hundreds of thousands more and the thresholds are too low to prevent children’s childhoods from being messed up by this sort of thing.

Just been FB stalking and looks like the dad had 3 younger dc with another woman. So you do wonder.....

Try being a SW. No one goes into that profession hoping to make children suffer. It's a nightmare with a lack of staff and endless bureaucracy.

Was it followed up that the eldest twins had not been in school for weeks?

If he didn’t see his kids he should be accountable and if he didn’t see his kids and didn’t do anything then accountability too. It can’t always be the woman to blame

A childminder would not legally be allowed to look after that many kids that age during the working day, let alone 24/7. Why? Because it is too fucking much to ask of anyone and is courting disaster. Even if they split amicably, it was blindingly obvious that she would need a fuckload of support as soon as he left.

Lots of women have mental health issues and don't neglect or kill their children. Why should the dad have suspected she would? If she'd told him she didn't want him around (maybe she didn't, but we don't know), then what was he supposed to do?

Because no-one can do a good job of looking after 4 kids under 2 round the clock by themselves.

What a horrible and tragic story.

Surely the main focus is how can we, as a society, make sure the children in cases like this don't continue to bear the brunt. Hopeless parents (for whatever reason) and the care system appears to be completely fucked, so it's not even as if taking them into care would have helped.

I despair. Those poor little boys.

I found the picture of the children heartbreaking but no, legally this can't really apply

My understanding is that he had moved onto a new partner and had other children, so basically left those poor kids to it

YANBU. Society has let deadbeat dads (for want of a better phrase) get away with too much for far too long. Absent parents need to be made to pay for their offspring, and be held equally responsible for their general welfare whatever roof they sleep under.

we do know, because we have the judge's sentencing remarking laying her health struggles out in great detail. She had also experienced domestic violence (though it doesn't say who the perpetrator was).

That as may be but the poor boys were living in squalor with human faeces and rubbish all over the house.
If him or his family gave a shit they might not have been left on their own

I’m also going of the opinion that the landlord should be charged - apparently the flat was rented out with no smoke alarms, which is against the law.
If there had been a smoke alarm, a neighbour might have been able to call the fire brigade or break in to rescue those boys before it was too late.
Too many landlords are breaching regs and cutting corners in this country.

And what if the mother does not want this?
Because my husband would and did (to the tune of a £20k family court bill) and despite being ordered by the court, she refused to let him anywhere near his sons.
Would it have been his fault if this had happened to his sons?

Apparently the kids were well turned out and she didn't allow any relatives in the house, so probably no one knew about the squalor. SS did know and did nothing. Inlaws had reported her to SS so they at least showed some level of interest. The dad is an attention seeking deadbeat who went on to have 3 more children but no, legally he's not responsible for their deaths.

I voted YANBU but not because he should stand trial for manslaughter but that he left those poor boys with an unfit mother. He is, now of course, devastated blahblahblah. Social Services were also involved so why did they leave the boys with her.

Those poor kids.

You know nothing about why he wasn't involved with his sons, maybe she made it difficult for him to see them, it happens a lot.

What was the situation in terms of contact? Was it casual, or some sort of court ordered arrangement?

Would we also blame Sara Sharif's mother? She lost custody I think? Was she seeing Sara? I've seen several MN threads saying this man should be charged but none about her? But maybe there are details I don't know about.

YANBU. The family knew she was struggling and the boys were left alone. They should have been there caring for those boys. Their protestations ring empty.