Should the father of the 4 Hoath boys also be charged with manslaughter?

[Inkyblue123]

Just that really - he abandoned those 4 kids to the care of someone he knew had psychiatric problems and living in filth.once again the judicial system punished a women while overlooking the broader systematic failures and the responsibilities of others.
YANBU - he should stand trial
YABU - he’s not responsible for this tragedy

The judge said that the mother was bringing them up by herself. He said that she had reached out for help, said she couldn't cope, but no help had been forthcoming.

So yes, I'm going to blame the dad for being a shit parent.

He must have known the state of the house, but what did he do? Did he take the dc to live with him? No. Send like he did nothing at all.

So some of this is on him.

More info here: Mum who left sons home alone jailed for fire deaths www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5ye7p34235o

Yep

I disagree in that she clearly was a poor mother and was rightfully punished. Like there’s a difference between a struggling single mum and being neglectful

It always amazes me when randoms on the internet believe they know more than the professionals directly involved in a case.

I think I agree actually.

Furthermore why aren’t men who refuse to pay for or see their children routinely charged with neglect/Child Abandonment/neglect?

So if your childrens dad murdered your children, or locked them in a house with candles burning and they were killed, do you agree that you should also be considered responsible for their death and charged with manslaughter?

I disagree. Ultimately their mother was the person who was at the forefront of the tragedy - but she was also at the forefront of everything else by default no and so that stands to reason. I think multiple failures must have led to this situation, from multiple people - no incident happens in isolation.

Legally, I don't know how the law would be changed, but philosophically absolutely the father walking away and leaving his children in this environment is negligent at the least.

If you knew he was unstable and that the living conditions were as they were but wilfully left the children in his care and ignored it, then yeah.

But it's not a straight choice is it. Social Services exist and those children could have been removed from their mother. And they weren't. I very much doubt if the actual correct procedures were followed, in sequence. I also don't doubt that all the correct procedures were being followed up to a point. In my experience there is a big difference between the two. So often I read in serious case reviews that despite evidence that the parent was not following the child in need plan the plan stayed in place , sometimes for years. The next step it to escalate not to keep doing the same thing.
Sounds simple but it seems to be a lot harder in real life.

Don’t be daft OP.

The system should have intervened and removed the children from her. The fact she neglected and killed them (and lied) is not the dad’s fault.

If you knew he was unstable and that the living conditions were as they were but wilfully left the children in his care and ignored it, then yeah
Has it been made public that he knew?

If he didn't know that's another neglect charge right there

Not with manslaughter but maybe with abandonment leading to neglect.

I had to stop reading when it said they were found under beds. The news is just awful today.

If he didn't know that's another neglect charge right there
Mmm many nrp are not allowed in the house of the resident parent. That especially when indeed, the house is a mess. He couldn't force entry.

I'm still confused about what facts we know to point the finger at him.

Surely he'd have noticed her mental state at some point, maybe even seen the state of the house when collecting the children EOW as any responsible non resident parent would do if they couldn't get or do 50:50?

But he did leave them with the person who left them on their own with candles on. I wonder when he last saw them.

I mean, she probably would not have been struggling so much with her mental health had she not been left in sole charge of two sets of twins under the age of two. Poor bloody woman must not have slept for literally years.

I don't know. She had significant MH issues and it stands to reason that would spill over into other areas of her life. I suspect that whenever they broke up, she would likely have made things very difficult for him to see them - possibly partly as a way to cover up their living conditions, I don't know.

Nobody else here seems to have considered the absolute overwhelming and expensive minefield that 'going to court' entails for a significant portion of the population. Legal aid is a joke, it's long, stressful and many don't have the money or even know the right questions to ask, and there's no guarantees. And some people in some circles just don't know what their options are legally - to the point where it doesn't even occur to them that they might be able to fight the situation. Low income, disadvantaged people are largely ignorant of things like family law.

Statistically, yes, it's likely he just walked away, wriggled out of maintenance, and didn't bother with them. But I don't think making blanket assumptions and damning him to hell based on those assumptions is right.

@Inkyblue123
UABU in that we don't know the full circumstances.
What were the arrangements for care between the parents?
Did any other adults ever visit Rose's home?
Was the father aware of Rose's mental health issues?
What was the involvement of SS, MH services, GP or HV?
Were the children attending school or nursery?
Once more information is available then and only then can it be judged if their father neglected them.

Just awaiting the usual statement from ss that 'lessons having been learned blah blah..'

The absolute crisis of our broken public services lacking any resources to help it seemms, is shown in this tragedy.
Also agree with everyone else saying these bereaved dads coming out after their kids have died should bear some investigation of why they neglected their parental duties when they knew their ex partners were struggling.

It's a such an awful case.

Surely he'd have noticed her mental state at some point, maybe even seen the state of the house when collecting the children EOW as any responsible non resident parent would do if they couldn't get or do 50:50?
Why would he have noticed her mental state and/or assumed that 'state' made her a danger to her kids?

Sorry but is this thread based on any facts O haven't read yet, orissa it just an opportunity to once again put the blame on fathers for any wrongdoings no matter what?