Should the father of the 4 Hoath boys also be charged with manslaughter?

[Inkyblue123]

Just that really - he abandoned those 4 kids to the care of someone he knew had psychiatric problems and living in filth.once again the judicial system punished a women while overlooking the broader systematic failures and the responsibilities of others.
YANBU - he should stand trial
YABU - he’s not responsible for this tragedy

They were living in utterly disgusting conditions and had not been to school in weeks.

Yes, I think other people are responsible for what happened, and not just those paid to care.

Don't know much about the case, but did her psychiatric problems predate the children?
Four children under the age of four, whilst coping alone, is a tremendous burden on anyone. Depressive disorders do result from that.
Yes, the father is a fucking disgrace, but society doesn't judge men who walk away from their children. People just say 'as long as he pays', as if responsible fatherhood can be boiled down to a monthly paycheck.

She is not the first mum to have to cope with 4 children under 4. That she would find it extremely difficult I can understand but it doesn't in any way excuse leaving kids of that age alone to go shopping for non essential.

Why the heck is the father blamed for this utter maddening and selfish decision?

This, and on the relatives all coming out to condemn the mother, but who did nothing to help or intervene.

Why wouldn't he? He'd know what she was like for at least the period it took to father four children.

It clearly did make her a danger to her children, though - otherwise they'd still be alive.

Good question.
There's a case reported in Scotland yesterday, where a 6 year old girl was found dead alongside her father. Today it is reported that she was murdered. If he murdered her, should her mother be charged with manslaughter? Should the mother have known the father was a danger?
There is not sufficient support available to families who are struggling. Not helped by austerity closing Sure Start, fewer health visitors etc.

Who knows? But the point is it's just completely unworkable and ridiculous to suggest he should be prosecuted.

I found it odd the relative condemned her but there was no mention of the father.

They were 3 and 4, not under 2.

I quite agree. The absent father should be expected by law to be ensuring his children are in a safe and comfortable environment. It is unfair that everything is dumped on the woman. Too many men run away but expect full rights when it suits them.

I believe (but would have to check) he left when the younger twins were a week or two old.

I live 10 minutes drive from the house. It is a tiny terrace and I can guarantee that every neighbour knew too - the next front door is about 8 feet from hers. Nobody did anything to help and if they did no-one was listening.

After they died they were painting bloody murals of the kids in the little park opposite and releasing fucking balloons in their memory. All too fucking late.

This

Manslaughter, no. But neglect definitely if he knew how his children were living and wasn’t doing all he could to get them out of it. Hard to prove though I imagine.

@Zebedee999
A separated parent cannot insist on seeing inside the other parent's home. He would have no right to inspect her home.
It's too easy to lay blame on him when we just don't know the facts.
Maybe he is a useless feckless father but we don't know the full circumstances.

It was during Covid and she clearly wasn’t coping or ill. But we don’t know how involved the father was. Children’s services should not have closed the case. I’m wondering if these cases went up in lockdown due to lack of face to face interaction. It’s those little boys that I feel sorry for.

I don't think that any parent should be able to walk away from their financial responsibilities to their children - if we can fine and remove driving licenses from benefit fraudsters then we can sure as shit do the same for men who piss off and abandon their children (passports too).

I don't think that you can/should make a parent play an active role in their children's lives though. Anyone who can just walk away from their kids is not a fit person to look after them. Doesn't say much for them as a person though.

The adult in charge of a child at any given time bears ultimate responsibility for their safety though. You cant pass the buck on that.

Yes @lifeonmars100 . I am turning into my mother who used to say she “didn’t watch the news as it’s all bad”. That was 50 odd years ago so multiply that by x amount to get to the type of horrific stuff that’s happening on a daily basis.

I think some posters are confused. She wasn't so affected by her MH that she went and knifed her kids. She left 4 vulnerable children to enjoy a shopping trip.

If she was so traumatised, why didn't she live to go and seek help.

I will deduct that no-one here knows any fact about the father? We don't know what he knew or didn't, how much contact he had, whether they had a decent coparenting relationship or a highly conflicted one.

I think this is one of the worse thread I've read recently. Trying to shift blame from a mother who was well enough to go and shop without a care for the safety of her children, to a father we know absolutely nothing about.

That's MN at its absolute worse!

The mother is clearly mentally ill, she needed help in this awful case.

Frankly I'm sick of people using mental health as a get out of jail free card. She CHOSE to have children and CHOSE to neglect them. She could at any point have contacted SS and said she was handing them over, and CHOSE not to.

She deserves jail and everything that happens to her inside it. As for the father and family, they're all culpable too but in a different way.

It's going to be very hard for her in prison. She is blind now.

I agree with this.

So even if you are persistent it can be very difficult either

1. To get Child protection action taken or
2. To go to court and change arrangements - that of course is if you have money, a lot of money

Believe you me I know!

Exactly! These same women on here now would be complaining about someone's ex trying to access their house!

According to the paternal GM, she wouldn't let them in the house. I understand the father and his family saw the boys regularly.