Should the father of the 4 Hoath boys also be charged with manslaughter?

[Inkyblue123]

Just that really - he abandoned those 4 kids to the care of someone he knew had psychiatric problems and living in filth.once again the judicial system punished a women while overlooking the broader systematic failures and the responsibilities of others.
YANBU - he should stand trial
YABU - he’s not responsible for this tragedy

Why are we so sure the father was absent and why are we so sure that he knew about the state of the house? It's pretty common for women to not want their ex in the home following a split. Are people suggesting than an ex partners should have mandatory access to the house where their children are living?

The judge was satisfied that her MH didn't affect her judgement that day.

She regularly left them (for 5 mins) to pop down to the local shop 7 doors down.

On this occasion, she obviously went further afield and unfortunately left candles burning where 4 boisterous boys were running around.

It's really not that deep. She made a decision that will haunt her for the rest of her days.

I agree totally OP, so many posts calling this woman a monster. She might well be, I don’t know her personally.

But it should be noted she wasn’t abusing her kids, neglecting them maybe but possibly not through choice but just a total inability to cope.

She was clearly struggling, she reached out for help and didn’t get any. 4 young children to look after alone is bloody hard work. She shouldn’t have left them, of course she couldn’t. Maybe the sheer desperation for a break caused her to make that decision, I don’t think she would have done it if she thought they were going to die of course.

But I can only imagine their dad lived life as if he had no children, no responsibility for them or their welfare and just left it all to the over stretched mum.

The boys are the ultimate victims and it is desperately sad, so many what ifs. But maybe controversial, I don’t think their mother was a monster I think she was desperate and it’s cost her more than she could have ever imagined.

Agree with this.
The relatives: 'the hole that has been left by our children's deaths cannot be filled'
Really? They didn't care enough to put themselves out & intervene did they they? Didn't want the hassle of helping with 4 small children, but now they refer to them as 'our children'.
Yes the mother as the primary carer is to blame but what about all those who knew things were bad but looked the other way?

If you are a parent (or anyone else) in charge of children, they are your responsibility. It is as simple as that. There is a lot of help available if you can’t cope and, ultimately, anyone can legally give up care of their children.

Yes, more fathers should take responsibility for their children, I agree with that. But that is completely different from being in any way legally or morally culpable for their death.

If you leave your child with a nanny or child minder and their neglect leads to a child dying, are you in any way responsible?

I also agree. It's always the mother who got dumped with the kids who gets prosecuted for neglect. Why do the fathers get away with it every time? They can't all be lovely dads who were pushed out by the feckless mothers.

If you left a nanny in sole charge of 4 kids under 4 by herself for days and weeks on end, yes, you would absolutely get the book thrown at you, and rightly so

If you leave your child with a nanny or child minder and their neglect leads to a child dying, are you in any way responsible

There is a contractual relationship there as well as legal duties on childcare professionals.

No parent should be able to dump a child on the other parent without good reason.

If you don't want kids, contraception is available. Or just don't have sex.

Of course not. Because the mother is never to blame and MN will always find a way to blame the man.
On this occasion, posters have to concede the woman actually left the children so would bear SOME responsibility, but it always comes back to the man being at fault.

Better all round if they had all been removed and placed with a loving family who deserved them.
RIP beautiful boys

She didn’t go shopping with a friend. She claimed she’d left the friend in the house looking after the children. Whilst fire crews were trying to revive the boys on the pavement, another crew were re- committed into the house (which was still on fire) to search for the friend, who, it turned out did not exist. Those firefighters could also have been killed.

The BBC report shows there was a significant breakdown in the family’s living conditions likely to be related to the mums understandable and entirely predictable need for support. She told her GP she wasn’t coping. No help came.

and the neighbours did help. Don’t know about with regular childcare but when the fire happened they tried to help to save the boys.

Its sad to see the dad’s side of the family apparently condemning her but not him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ye7p34235o

The mother is clearly mentally ill, she needed help in this awful case
Or just maybe immature, selfish and irresponsible.

We don't know!

I'm not saying you are wrong but how do you know this? I can't find any news sources that state what the wider family knew or how often they saw the children.

It's clear that this woman was left to do the vast majority of the parenting but that seems to be what most people on here think should happen- just take a look at all the threads criticising parents who go for a 50:50 care arrangement.

i can quite see how two sets of twins so close in age would be extremely challenging and I would have hoped support would have been offered but I suspect not.

In mitigation, Laurie-Anne Power KC said that Rose had "asked for help and it was not forthcoming".
Her four children were "loved and cherished" and "looked after by her and her alone, while struggling with what are described by experienced psychiatrists as complex psychiatric mental health needs".

This is the problem in this country, people are desperate and there is no help. Despite having complex psychiatric mental health needs, this woman had no help. People can be as tired of hearing about MH as a reason as they like - but while there is no help, tragedies like this will continue.

This. On the news they said the house was squalid, rubbish and excrement everywhere. The paternal family saying: "justice is done" without any notion that they could've prevented it by checking in on a mother who clearly wasn't coping

The dad admitted he knew the mum left those kids alone. He is just as guilty in my opinion. Have you seen the step-grandmother’s FB post about how it’s all down to her the kid’s mum was prosecuted? Typical attention seeking behaviour for the FB likes. They are all as bad as each other. They all let those boys down.

@dynamiccactus ,

‘There is a contractual relationship there as well as legal duties on childcare professionals.’

There are legal duties on all adults who care for children, including parents.

If my ex wife told me tomorrow that she no longer wanted to care for our children 50% of the time, I might not be happy but I would care for them the same as I do now, taking full responsibility all the time.

And, if I failed in this basic parental duty, I would be 100% to blame.

Yes, for failing parents, there should be interventions and help, and clearly lots failed here. And he was a dead beat dad, and can be blamed for that. But their deaths are totally on her.

The woman was solo parenting 4 toddlers 24/7. It is hardly surprising her mental health was shot to shit. If it was a job, her employers would be in the dock.

I don’t believe you can prosecute but I admit I felt the same when I read the article. Him and other family members saying how devastated they were - if they were involved in any meaningful way in the childrens’ lives, they would’ve noticed something was amiss.

Yes agree with that. There such a low bar for men. Of course the mother absolutely shouldn't have left them at home alone. But how about we do more about fathers that fuck off and no doubt go on to produce more kids and the cycle starts again.

Yes, I think I probably wouldn’t have had particularly robust mental health after two sets of twins.

Sorry but is this thread based on any facts O haven't read yet

If you think that reading about the 'facts' in the media will give you a truly accurate understanding of the nuanced, incremental, systemic and historic failures and circumstances of all parties in this - or any - situation, then you're a fool.

orissa it just an opportunity to once again put the blame on fathers for any wrongdoings no matter what?

The problem here is precisely because fathers are not held accountable for their wrongdoing. They are rarely held accountable for anything at all, and the permission society gives them to just walk away with no repercussions, while the mother shoulders immense responsibility and pressure alone is abhorrent.

Fathering a child and then not being present enough in their lives to notice that an extreme situation is occuring is alone grounds for neglect - and in cases like this where tragedy occurs, probably more.