Axel Rudakubana

[Dylanxoxo]

I haven't seen anything in articles I have read about Axel Rudakubana today about a mental health assessment. His behaviour is so extreme, that it is difficult not to suspect he is suffering from an untreated mental health condition. Does anyone else think that mental illness may be at the root of his horrific crimes?

From his performance in court today - suspect he will be pretty difficult to manage in prison and as you say will be quietly moved on

There was no way that they would have let him go down the mental health route and not be incarcerated in jail. There would have been a huge public uprising.

Agree

See also Peter Sutcliffe

I think it's possible he did have mental health issues, but in this case given what that resulted in, he needs to be locked up.

It’s late so might be missing your point.

But I am confused; because how on earth would childline know if it’s in his head or not?

If it’s true the younger boy really didn’t have any idea he existed then how on earth could they have been bullying him. They could be lying. But I’m inclined to believe them over a psychopath tbh.

I agree.

The threshold for not guilty by reason of insanity is sky high and there was no way he could ever meet that.

However it would have been possible to have manslaughter by means of diminished responsibility if he had a mental disorder, much easier to prove, and a sentence of a hospital order (to go to Broadmoor) been sought.

However he had no such defence. His psychiatric report finds no mental disorder that had any relevance to his offending.

He is vanishingly unlikely to end up in Broadmoor unless he develops a mental illness later in life. Even then once he is treated he will be returned to prison.

If they hadn't stated no MH issues I would've put money on him suffering from schizophrenia. If you look at stabbings where the victim was a stranger and was stabbed many times it's often done by someone during a psychotic episode. However psychosis from as young as age 13 would be fairly unusual I think, but possible.

I'm not convinced doctors can diagnose schizophrenia down to 100% accuracy enough to say he was/is in his right mind.

That's quite offensive to the many sufferers of schizophrenia who don't do what he did.

People with schizophrenia are many times more likely to be a victim of violent crime than a perpetrator.

He has been observed extensively and expert opinion sought and there is no evidence of his suffering psychotic symptoms, precluding a diagnosis of schizophrenia.

Tbh I don’t think it is.

I have had a psychotic break. First episode suspected schizophrenia. Thankfully never had another episode so never was diagnosed with schizophrenia and hopefully I don’t have it.

But when I look at him he reminds me of my episode. The paranoia, thinking people at the door are there for you. Thinking people are talking about you.

I also had obsessions in my psychosis. That’s what triggered it really. Just went too far down a rabbit hole whilst out of work and isolated.

But no I wasn’t violent. But I can see similarities absolutely. I was thinking of running away to hide. But perhaps that’s because I’m female. Males might be more inclined to fight than flight. And his obsessions were violence based.

I don't know but that will be discovered in due course. Not our concern, justice has been done. I am not going to pore over this dreadful case, I know the tabloids will have a field day and the late night channels on freeview will be kept in business for decades on the back of it, none of which will bring any comfort to the bereaved families. It's unhealthy to be overly concerned with serial killers and the details of their crimes, I'm happy to leave that to those qualified to do so, I have enough trouble sleeping at night as it is. I will say that the subject came up on last night's Question Time and I thought it was handled, and discussed, very well with no sensationalism.

Please don't flame me. Does anyone know if Tommy Robinson's claim that Rudakubana attended the mosque in Belmarsh prison is accurate? I despise Tommy Robinson far right agenda, but I didn't just want to immediately assume it was wrong bc of who it was coming from. Another person on X claimed it was true, 'could confirm.' Also in the Spectator, they said Farage claimed on GB news that Rudakubana viewed extreme jihadi videos. This per se wouldn't mean he was an Islamist, though it could. Clearly all this stuff, either way, is far too easy to access. How can we know? It's good the Spectator brought it up- they also said the riots were ordinary people concerned not only by misinformation but genuine issues. I agree but riots are Never acceptable, esp intimidating innocent people bc of their religion.

I hope if true the government will release the info, tho it's tricky to do without inflaming tensions. Otoh not releasing info could also do that.
If it was true, all it would confirm is that non Muslims can also be drawn into extremist Islamism, just as previously non religious people can get drawn into extreme religions & cults. We need to step up integration of communities, CAHMS & identifying potentially dangerous teens before they commit these awful crimes. How are Islamists getting in touch w these people?

I see what you mean. He does always cover his teeth with either a mask, his jumper or his lips in the mugshot. His teeth look OK in the tardis photo in this article, but maybe he's got a complex
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.ie/news/14565875/axel-rudakubana-expelled-knife-school-southport/amp/

I'm sorry to hear your experience.

I still think it's offensive. He stabbed a child hundreds of times and I don't think it shellfil to stigmatise mental health that way.

Its helpful!

Something I thought just now- couldn't Childline do anything more? Is there not an obligation to contact other agencies if someone is on the verge of violence? Or am I missing something?

If it was used in mitigation he must have said something, I'd be interested to know what happened to prevent harm

He had an EHCP, and as a parent of a child with an EHCP the whole system is in utter, utter crisis.

I have been trying to see this from the parents perspective. It sounds like they contacted the police and sought help many, many times. Proactive, timely and personalised help simply isn’t there for children with special needs.

That said - I would have taken extreme action as a parent - had I had even the slightest inking that my son was accessing this type of thing.

Not 100% sure about this but IIRC Childline did breach confidentiality and either directly or indirectly [via Education] he was referred to Prevent but this referral was NFA'd

Thank you. I feel I was lucky to have got help so quickly and fully recovered.

Psychotic and schizophrenic people can be incredibly dangerous. Not only to other people but to themselves. That’s just true.

I don’t see why the stigma even matters tbh. In crisis I don’t believe I’m ill so I’m not caring about any stigma; and in stable relapse I don’t tell people about my MH. No one knows. So I’m not affected by the stigma.

I think the main problem is family denial imo. The only people who can flag this type of thing early enough for effective treatment is family. If they deny or delay the issue then there’s no chance. So I’m not against a bit of fear mongering stigma tbh. It seems many are far too blasé about this. If someone has these kinds of symptoms they need emergency care immediately or it could result in death (more likely of the person in crisis themselves).

But that’s just my view. Thank-you for thinking about psychotic people’s feelings, even if I don’t agree. Very kind.

He had a ‘kill’ list at school

Some people are just born evil

Yes, I agree, you do get that feeling about him.

With the photos of other evil people, such as Sutcliffe, Brady, the Wests they have their hair done normally and they look straight at the mugshot camera with mild, neutral expressions. But the Southport killer really does look like he obsessively hates the world and his hair is not “done” in the way a black person would normally take pride in their appearance and style their Afro.
I trust the decision that he was fit for trial but clearly, he wouldn’t be fit to be released after 52 years without some sort of treatment, I hope.

Those eyes! that is not a person in their right mind. I'm against the state being able to kill people too ( capital punishment) but if I was a judge and this guy slipped down the stairs I'd be happy to call it an accident.

I mean, it could be a mental illness but I don't think it always is in these cases. Similarly serious substance abuse can have a similar effect too.

Personality disorders of various kinds are common IMO with these situations. I imagine some are psychopaths, but I tend to think not just that, because most psychopaths don't do that kind of thing. There is something else beyond that.

I do think you could probably say with some confidence there is something abnormal about people who do things like this. Does that represent some brain difference or similar? Maybe?

Most people have some a capacity for good and evil and IMO generally try and stay on the side of good. Not many people seem to embrace evil so completely. I think there is a reason people have often seen that as a kind of possession. It seems so inhuman, as if the person is somehow no longer there but only an evil impulse.