DS doesn’t want us to contact him while he is travelling

[alizea]

DS has recently turned 25, he has a degree, was working in a good job and doing some sports coaching on the side. He was in a fairly cheap flat share so able to save good money.

In September he announced he was taking 3 months off work (approved sabbatical apparently) and going to Australia and New Zealand to clear his head. He had a nasty break up at the start of last year and was devastated so we obviously supported him and he has lots of savings plus a lump sum from the death of my sister who left an amount to all her nieces and nephews.

Anyway, he came home just before Christmas, seemed normal and was talking about going back to work etc. He has now decided to quit his job, and he is heading to Thailand next week. He has told us he will be travelling with a girl he met while in Australia, very cagey about giving us any info on her, other than she's 22 and "not British or Aussie or that". Obviously we are worried and this is out of character but he's an adult.

Well tonight he sat us down and basically said he needs space from us, I asked why and he said he feels like we were neglectful of him when he was a child and favoured his sisters and as an adult haven't been supportive, especially during his break up. I got very upset as this really took me by surprise and I asked him over and over how we can make things better and apologised for failing him in anyway. He has asked us not to contact him while he is travelling, he said he doesn't know his full plans yet but unlikely he will be home before the end of the year. He said he plans to spend some time in South East Asia and East Asia through the end of spring, then summer in Europe, then Autumn and Early Winter in South America and Central America.
He has said he may visit in the summer as the girl he is travelling with has never been to London and would like to but plans are flexible and we shouldn't expect anything. He has requested we don't call or message him but we can continue following him on Instagram.

I don't really know what to do, the thought of him travelling and being unable to check in makes me so nervous and I'm really concerned about this somewhat sudden revelation about us not being great parents to him, I've always tried my best and I never ever wanted to let him down.

AIBU to be concerned? He said we can message him with questions etc. until he leaves but then nothing. Im such a mix of worry, upset and fear that I don't know what to do.

Op has known the sons Ex since she was 3 years old. She no doubt is close with her parents too. Can you imagine saying "I know we haven't argued, and I know you are best friends with my daughter, but now you aren't with my son any more, I am banning you from our house forever".......impossible situation to navigate, none of which is Op's fault.

When my partner and I were having relationship counselling as an aside my DP mentioned his jealous relationship with his DB and the counsellor said competitive relationships between siblings are often facilitated by the mother. This seems harsh and presumably could also be father? But they did say mother - we always get the blame!! In this case on reflection the mother used to phone each of her DS’ and tell them about all the amazing things the other was doing. They both worked in very different sectors one very glamorous and the other pretty mundane in comparison and this was indeed feeding the jealousy. That has stuck with me and made me think that as parents we really need to put as much effort into our children’s relationships with each other as we do with our relationship with them. This may sound obvious but I think sometimes parents can unwittingly value a close relationship with a ds or dd above the sibling relationship.

Yes, it really is hard, but is it worth alienating your son over?

She could have put in a boundary with her daughter, and told her that she did not want to hear one-sided gossip passed on from the ex. That would have added a level of neutrality without banning the friend.

DS messaged not long ago. He gave us his flight details and the phone number of the girl he is travelling with stipulating that if he hasn't posted on instagram in a week and we have tried to message him once and not received a reply in 3 days we can use that incase he has lost his phone or similar but under no other circumstances (barring family emergency) to contact him.

Well OP, I think that’s exactly the outcome you need in order to feel less anxious about him now. It’s doable, given all you now know. And you can wish him a wonderful year and try to be happy that he is trying to help himself with his year out.

His previous sit down chat with you has led you to understand more fully where he was coming from and you can send your genuine apology and try to move forward from there, respecting his wishes and feeling better that it is all out in the open and dealt with properly. And looking forward to a fresh start when he comes home.

As for banning the Ex gf, I wouldn’t frame it in those strong terms exactly. But I would certainly sit down with her and DD and explain that you don’t wish to get involved in past details and nor do you wish to ruin their friendship but you now understand more fully that DS has really struggled with the break up and felt removed from his home and family by the more or less continuous presence of his Ex and by his parents lack of support to control that situation for him - all to such an extent that you have realised it was very wrong of you to have allowed that situation to have developed whereby Ex felt part of the household and he didn’t feel welcome at all. Say that it’s impossible to allow that situation to continue now you know about it and suggest that they could make plans to continue their friendship out of your house, (except when specifically invited by you,) so that you can reassure your DS that you fully support his feelings and he can safely return home any time without fear of discomfort which he hasn’t been able to do since the break up.

I know it seems pointless to do that now you know he is away for a year and your DD will fight against it, but it will help you I think, to feel you have acted with integrity to put things right with him. And hopefully, your DD can find a way to face her social anxiety fears if she can start to get used to being in somebody else’s house other than her own.

I do think it was careless and unthinking of Ex gf to have made herself so at home in your house after the break up, - ingratiating herself so easily, coming and going as she pleased and not being too discreet about it either.

I agree. It's not the same as a young woman he met a year ago who happened to make friends with his sister.

You could say "I'm sorry ex, I'm not blaming you but I need to support my son and keep this home as a safe place for him. I think it would be best if you don't come round for a while, so he can have some space to heal."

Unless there are other factors (e.g. her own parents are abusive and you've been a surrogate parent to her), as a young adult she should understand that breakups change things and exes need space.

You don't have to say that - although any girl who broke MY son's heart wouldn't be welcome in our house. But if the OP was that bothered, all she had to say to her was 'it's not that tactful you coming round at the moment, please don't until the dust has settled.' The reason she hasn't is because her daughter claims to have 'social anxiety' which conveniently means everyone has to do what she wants, including having the girl who cheated on her brother hanging out in his home.

As the quieter sibling of one very prone to drama - please don't give your DD's feelings more weight just because they're louder. It's easy to do as a parent (I know I'm at risk of recreating that dynamic with my own very different DC), but it will be very hurtful to your DS. I suspect that the break up is just one of a long line of instances going back to childhood where he's been trusted to be the mature one or asked to compromise because "you know what she's like".

Get a handle on that now as you move into a different phase of your relationship with them. In our family it all came to a head around my wedding and it wasn't pretty.

Your daughter can meet the ex at her house. Her social anxiety does not trump your son's feelings on this. And I think she's using it as a stick to beat you with to keep her place as top dog in the house.

Your son has done as much as he is willing to to reassure you re his travels, I hope he has fun.

Good post, @BarbaraHoward.

OP may have known ex since she was 3.

But this was her son's home. Not the ex's home. Yes, she could have set boundaries like Daughter would have to see her friend outside the family home. She could have stopped Daughter 1 the second she tried to talk shit about her brother. This enmeshment is not healthy, in fact it's so unhealthy that it's been used to push Son out of the family home.

Son sees her "neutrality" as prioritizing Daughter 1 and his ex. So he's pulled very much away and it's likely permanent.

Now OP says Daughter 1 will "kick off" if boundaries are put up with her friend. Too freaking bad.

I don't know if OP sees how Daughter 1's behaviour has taken over the home. She's talked shit to her siblings with her I'm the favourite comments, talked shit about the son to his own mom, and now has OP worried about what she will do if she limits ex's time in the family home. She's manipulative and starts trouble.

OP. Nobody wants to visit their family home and see their ex there treated like they're more a part of the family than they are.

Mmm... what I thought really!

He has the benefit of hindsight over his childhood that you couldn't possibly have had even if he hadn't been your first child.

You make decisions based on the information you have at the time and with the best intentions, like giving someone else a bigger room based on the stuff they have and how they use that room.

You can't go back in time and make these things fair, you can't be in three places at once if there are only two of you, or go and set lower expectations for him once you are onto kid three and realise the higher expectations were a bit unrealistic, or go back and treat a 15 year old boy like he is an 8 year old girl...

I'd ask him what he thinks you should have done in some of those situations? Not attended DD's nativity or piano exam, when you did attend his? Left an 8 year old to walk home alone?

It is very easy to say 'you should have done differently, you shouldn't have done x or y or z' but if he can't say 'you should have done a or b' and have those be practical suggestions... he really needs to get over himself!

As far as the ex girlfriend is concerned... I don't think you should be banning from your house and your DD's home, a friend she has had from being a toddler. Your DD lives there. Your DS does not. He really cannot dictate who visits the house he doesn't live in, and hasn't for some time!

Like, what would happen if OP said, ‘DD1, I don’t want to hear another word out of you about Exname and DS. It’s not your place to be so over-involved, stay out of it.’

Im really fascinated by this!

I agree.
I also feel your first 'big' breakup, even if the relationship wasn't that long, is often so intense. I remember the first heartbreak in late teens feeling so intense and painful.

Looking back in my 30s I can see things differently but at the time it was just consuming

Well luckily the son has left and isn't coming back home, because every time he did there his ex was sitting on his sofa laughing with his sister and parents, so the OP doesn't have to ban the ex now does she? Which is perfect, so long as she never wants to have any kind of relationship with her own son. The ex can fill the gap though, so that's fine.

Very much this.
Parents aren't perfect.
'Emotional neglect' - quite vague thing and seems to come up a lot on MN and on here. I'm sure my youngest says I don't pay him enough attention but I really, really do and others in the family know I do.

I do think these perceptions come down to personality types. Perhaps the more sensitive/anxious has an insatiable need for support that perhaps a parent is just not able to give all the time as there are other children in the family. People with a tendency to depression do have an external locus of control often which means they believe a lot of what happens to them, especially bad things, is due to things outside themselves and their control, i.e. other people's actions.

We need to realise that their truth is not necessarily the ultimate truth but that there is grey and not everything is black and white. Parents are fallible too and we need to be able to say sorry.

This

'Emotional neglect' - quite vague thing and seems to come up a lot on MN and on here. I'm sure my youngest says I don't pay him enough attention but I really, really do and others in the family know I do.

But in this case, with only OP's version of events to go on (which will inevitably be skewed towards her own point of view), an awful lot of people have suggested that actually OP was or might have been "emotionally neglectful" of her son and prioritised her daughters over him.

If your youngest doesn't think you pay him enough attention then (assuming he's not a young child) do you listen to why he thinks that, or just dismiss him?

The more I read, it's clear DD1 is the problem, everything is about her and her 'anxiety', she sounds happy to push her brother out.
Time she moves out, nasty piece of work.

It isn't her son's home though - he left home already! He drops in twice a year, iirc.

Are you saying the son is the one of the OP's children who is 'more sensitive' with the 'insatiable need for support' - even though he's the one living in his own flat who's managed to save up over £75K (which is bloody impressive at 25, even if some of that was an inheritance)? That clearly isn't true. The one with the insatiable need for support is DD1, who is also the one pushing for the son's ex to be constantly in the house (that I imagine she's not paying any rent towards either as it sounds like her 'social anxiety' means she doesn't work).

Trying to frame the son as 'over sensitive' is wrong and actually quite insulting to him. 'Insatiable' is a horribly derogatory term to use.

We don't know anything about if the parents are close.

She could say "This isn't personal, but it is very painful for my son that you come to our house, so I'm going to ask that you don't because I'm his mum and he might not live here but this house is always his home. Hopefully he won't always feel this way. I hooe you understand, and I wish you the best."

What would be wrong with that?

Realistically, i think you need to be clear that you love him and have always made decisions based on that you thought were in everyone's best interests. That you are human and not infallible. If he feels hurt or less than based on your decisions then you are sorry because that was never your intention.

I don't think he can dictate how often or when you contact him. He can control when he responds. I actually think his being extremely controlling. Also, it's very counterproductive. How can you be supportive or have a relationship without actually contacting him?

Honestly, I think he's a bit of a brat. I think the traveling might help him grow the fuck up.

OP said he visited about once a month.

It's also quite controlling to keep contacting someone who has politely asked you not to though.

if she keeps contacting him against his will, it's only going to make matters worse no matter what the rights and wrongs of it all are.