Making a slight bag rustling sound in a fast food restaurant

[Augustinian]

My DH and I are on holiday. We were doing some shopping and fancied a break so stopped at a fast food restaurant as it was the easiest option (this is a busy spot). This country is his favourite country by the way, he wants to live here (we live in the UK). So we sat down, it’s busy but not quite full and we find a table. On one side is a man sitting on his own using his phone. While we wait for our food, I begin to take out a phone bag I had purchased as we are constantly having to use our phones for the train and I don’t have good pockets so it’s been quite a hassle getting it in and out. I want to get it ready for the journey home. The plastic shopping bag is making a slight rustling sound as I rummage around in it. The fast food place is full of chatting people, people unwrapping their food, etc, not exactly a museum or library atmosphere. As I’m reaching into the shopping bag to put the rubbish from the bag in it after unwrapping the phone bag, the bag rustles again. He gives me and then the bag a disgusted nasty look. He’s not a confrontational person so I’ve learned to read his facial expressions quite well after being married 10 years, and this one was clearly ‘you’re being loud and annoying and embarrassing me in front of my favourite country’s people by making too much noise’. I got pretty pissed about this (not loudly, I moved away from him to an empty seat and ate on my own). I have refused to travel back with him to the hotel and told him I won’t go back with him so to just finish his meal and leave. I’m now sat here wondering if I’ve over reacted but it really pissed me off. I do realise this is not a massive deal but it just made me feel a bit shit.

This isn't one of those posts! Plenty of people with experience of this kind of passive aggressive person who communicates disapproval with looks have engaged helpfully with the OP, and she's been really gracious about the ones slagging her off and implying that nonverbal communication doesn't exist.

Deleted - posted on wrong thread!

Please don’t feel you have to convince them.

There is a chronic problem with women being disbelieved when they’ve shared their experiences.

It’s happened to me here too. Many people can’t conceive of anything outwith their direct experience.

Given her husband has admitted what he did was wrong, it’s weird you still think she’s BU. Always the woman’s fault, eh?

One day you’ll wake up an old woman and realise you spent a lifetime propping him up.

@Augustinian you don't have to settle for someone that makes you feel like this. Is he any good in other ways?

> ‘you’re being loud and annoying and embarrassing me in front of my favourite country’s people by making too much noise’
Wow, he has a 'face' for that which appears often enough for you to recognise?
That would set alarm bells off for me

I'd rather hear someone munching food than hear bag rustling. To me, it's the most annoying sound there is.
And you both overreacted. It's quite a strange post, to be honest.

I didn't think 'this can't be real' OP - I can easily imagine the situation.

I think a lot of posters only read/ comment on AIBU threads looking to tell someone that they ARE being unreasonable, and stupid, and 'hard work' etc. It makes them blind to any subtleties in the post, and stops them from taking a minute to think, or to empathise. There's also this weird rule that absolutely every bit of information and context has to be in the first post - rather than say asking a question to get a better sense of what happened before weighing in and telling someone they're dramatic and ridiculous. I've read all your posts OP - and with the added context of it being Japan, where being quiet is a cultural expectation, and your husband's broader anxiety about 'getting it wrong' - then what happened really doesn't seem that unbelievable.

Plus some people just have poor reading comprehensions skills and an inability to imagine situations/ relationship dynamic outside of their own experience.

There was something I identified with in your post, my DH doesn't do 'the look' so much, but he does have quite a noticeable anxiety about being noticed in public or inconveniencing anyone out in the world/ general public in even the most minor way. He's hyper aware of ever being in anyone's way - even when it's unavoidable, and if someone is walking behind us he'll be like 'watch out watch out' and almost pull me out of their way - I'm perfectly aware of when people are trying to get past me, and if ever I didn't notice then presumably that person is perfectly capable of saying 'excuse me' - so it drives me mad to be so constantly monitored and shepherded around! If we're at the zoo say, and lots of people are trying to see a particular animal, we'll wait our turn and then when there's a space I'll step forward with DD to have a look, and he'll hang back so he doesn't even get to see, looking mortified that we've dared to take up a little bit of space for half a minute, and then be like 'come on come on people are waiting'.

Just a few examples - it's a hard one to describe and individually none of them seem that big a deal - but I think it comes from a similar place as your husband. It's their own anxiety, and their own fear of taking up any space/ drawing any attention/ getting anything 'wrong' - but it gets projected onto you.

My husband has definitely improved with it - we did have an open conversation, several actually, where I explained that it makes me feel like he cares more about every single random stranger we meet out in the world, and whether they have to take two extra steps to go round us for example, than he does about my comfort, needs or feelings. It puts me on edge when we're out and it's fucking patronising too - I'm a fully functioning adult who survived in the world and managed to walk down pavements/ exist in society without incident for 30+ years before I even met him, I don't need his input now. So he's definitely chilled out a bit - but I think you have to remember that it was never about you or any of your actions. It's about him.

What’s a phone bag

Something like this

@Augustinian I’m with you, you didn’t need to ask him as you can read his facial expressions. It’s the whole being treated like a child and the disgusted looks, I’m not surprised you moved tables

I would have a word with him regarding these “looks” he gives, it’s not on, if he has something to say then he should say it xx

I am culturally from an East Asian culture though not Japanese. As an outsider has he ‘read up a lot on it’ I assume he is worried about losing face in public as he takes the etiquette very seriously having studied it and not just lived it. If he is reading about it and learning it he is probably over doing it. He will stand out and he may feel a bit awkward. He probably just feels under scrutiny when in Japan, because however much he tries to be sensitive, learn the culture etc it’s pretty obvious he isn’t Japanese.

There is obviously a huge communication issue in your relationship overall though.

So glad you have written that@AliasGrapeMy DH also does this. It drives me potty. As you say it makes you feel like some random is more important than yourself. It’s totally unnecessary. Let the other person take a couple of extra steps if needs be. DH does it less now as we have spoken about it. I do still sometimes feel like I would be shoved under a bus to save a stranger!

Weird unless it was one of those really irritating noises that just got under his skin

@AliasGrape I was going to post something very similar from your DH's perspective. I am (or was) naturally like that, and it took a lot of self-reflection to understand the behaviour and realise that actually, people I love feeling comfortable and happy is more important than random people's perceptions of us breaking some largely imaginary social rules I've made up in my head. I'm really glad you were able to talk to your DH about it and that it's improved, and I agree with you that it's totally about him (OP's DH).

OP, I think having a decent talk about it once you're fully removed from the situation, probably back home after the holiday, is worth it if you think he could have insight into his behaviour - which does sound likely given your earlier post about him stopping a different harmful behaviour.

There’s a really cool site for finding out that sort of things, it’s called Google.

wtf! I read that as if he had actually said those words to you and now realise you invented it all in your head. what an over reaction to something that didn’t even happen. how does your relationship function if you don’t communicate. if he looked annoyed and you knew why by a look why not quickly just say “is the noise bothering you? I just want to get this sorted for x reason. or better still ignore it and move on. you acted like a toddler having a tantrum by not wanting to leave with him.

This is him exactly!!

if he looked annoyed and you knew why by a look why not quickly just say “is the noise bothering you? I just want to get this sorted for x reason.

Why does she have to mollify him and explain herself to him? All she did was open a bag!

OP was right to move away from him. It’s brought to him that he acted badly, which is why he has apologised to her and admitted he behaved badly.

I spotted it and immediately apologised, but you must have had your boot already raised and moving so missed my apology.

@Jellycats4life @PigInAHouse The problem with Googling is that it’s challenging to find a match to what OP describes. I for one, did indeed Google the mysterious Phone Bag as had NFI but everything that came up did not match the OzP’s description of rustling rust could be heard by others. The links to phone bags are essentially a smaller type of handbag that would not ‘rustle’ so others could hear this rustling. Maybe instead of telling people to Google, link to actual Phone Bags of the rustling variety that OP is describing?

It was the shopping bag/packaging the phone bag came in.

Eh!

We had a very long conversation. He’s now gone out to the local shop to pick up some drinks and snacks. I wanted to update everyone who have been so helpful.

I’ve discussed with him in the past if he may be autistic but he’s firmly rejected it. While I was out on my own earlier he decided to look into it again, which surprised me, and he’s beginning to think he may very well be. And those who brought up misophonia, at first I dismissed it but actually, you may be right. A combination of the intense feeling of trying to be socially correct + a bag rustling sound drove him into a very OTT reaction, which I mentioned he earlier admitted to and apologised for. I told him I can’t be a mind reader anymore and he needs to communicate with me. And also needs to somehow come to grips with the issues around Japan because I’m not living here if he continues to be like this.

Regarding the phone bag and the rustling, the phone bag itself doesn’t rustle, it was the shopping bag the phone bag was in, which was a large bag with other shopping in it so I had to rummage around for the phone bag. The phone bag itself is a small crossbody sling type bag that is big enough to fit a large smart phone in and is easy to quickly access. I don’t use a handbag so I guess this part is confusing. I have a small backpack which is difficult to quickly get a phone in and out of when going through the busy train ticket barriers.