Making a slight bag rustling sound in a fast food restaurant

[Augustinian]

My DH and I are on holiday. We were doing some shopping and fancied a break so stopped at a fast food restaurant as it was the easiest option (this is a busy spot). This country is his favourite country by the way, he wants to live here (we live in the UK). So we sat down, it’s busy but not quite full and we find a table. On one side is a man sitting on his own using his phone. While we wait for our food, I begin to take out a phone bag I had purchased as we are constantly having to use our phones for the train and I don’t have good pockets so it’s been quite a hassle getting it in and out. I want to get it ready for the journey home. The plastic shopping bag is making a slight rustling sound as I rummage around in it. The fast food place is full of chatting people, people unwrapping their food, etc, not exactly a museum or library atmosphere. As I’m reaching into the shopping bag to put the rubbish from the bag in it after unwrapping the phone bag, the bag rustles again. He gives me and then the bag a disgusted nasty look. He’s not a confrontational person so I’ve learned to read his facial expressions quite well after being married 10 years, and this one was clearly ‘you’re being loud and annoying and embarrassing me in front of my favourite country’s people by making too much noise’. I got pretty pissed about this (not loudly, I moved away from him to an empty seat and ate on my own). I have refused to travel back with him to the hotel and told him I won’t go back with him so to just finish his meal and leave. I’m now sat here wondering if I’ve over reacted but it really pissed me off. I do realise this is not a massive deal but it just made me feel a bit shit.

hes into strange anime isn’t he

No he’s not a pervert actually 😆 He only got into Japan after meeting me, he had no interest before. Most people do assume the reverse though. He’s very quiet so I think the culture just appeals to him. He’s hyper sensitive to being culturally appropriate to the extreme. But rustling a bag in a fast food restaurant while other people are rustling wrappers, laughing, chatting, scraping their chairs, etc?

It could be that he was thinking about something completely different and you are hyper vigilant for criticism and love storming off. It could be that he somehow controls you with his narky facial expressions (how!?) and this was the final straw.

Why even bother reacting to a facial expression? If he wants to tell you something he'll need to use his words, as Americans say to their tantrumming toddlers.

Only he knows whether this is all in your head I suppose. To me the whole thing sounds mad.

The relationship sounds very unhealthy.

Yes, on the face of it, it looks like an overreaction. But I assume (am I wrong?) that you don't go around reading these silent messages into glances etc by other people, only him. I think if you were paranoid, you'd think everyone was communicating like that. But it's only him - which suggests that he is doing something differently to make you think that.

Secondly, he didn't react to you standing up and eating at another table. If I did that, my DH would be confused. He would probably come and either crack a joke about how I've got lost, or be genuinely concerned and ask if I am OK - because this is very strange/unexpected behaviour if you haven't had an argument.

Your DH didn't react - which makes me think that he didn't find your behaviour unexpected at all, meaning your original interpretation was right and he fully well did intend to essentially start a nonverbal argument.

Have you ever read the Lundy Bancroft book? It sounds similar to the water torturer profile. He has been training you well over ten years

The thing is, it isn’t imaginary. But I guess it’s so nuts a lot of people can’t understand how it could be like this.

Firstly, no this is only with him. I’m not a mind reader, I just know him very well because I have had to learn to read him. And secondly, that is such a good insight, you’re right. I have not heard of this water torturer, I’ll look it up.

I'm curious OP, what would happen if you pretended you hadn't noticed his silent disapproval? What would he do?

Yup over reaction . Plus he may have misophonia so needs understanding on the matter.

I grew up with a man like your dh. It was like walking on eggshells.
I'm still hyper intuitive and have been known to overreact and catastrophise.

I think you can sit at any damn table you want and make as much noise as you wish. My advice would be, if you want to be with him, to stop viewing his feelings as something you necessarily need to do something about. We get controlled by wanting the other person to be happy (or by being cross with them). But what if you just thought, oh, DH isn't happy. I wonder what he'll do about that. He has all kinds of options. He's responsible for them. You don't have to carry the burden of his feelings as well as yours.

I think the fact that you reacted the way you did means there's something wrong with the dynamic between you both.

It doesn't sound like you have a great relationship and I'd rethink the future with him.

BTW what's a phone bag? Can you post a photo please?

THE WATER TORTURER [Lundy Bancroft, Why Does He Do That?]

The Water Torturer's style proves that anger doesn't cause abuse. He can assault his partner psychologically without even raising his voice. He tends to stay calm in arguments, using his own evenness as a weapon to push her over the edge. He often has a superior or contemptuous grin on his face, smug and self-assured. He uses a repertoire of aggressive conversational tactics at low volume, including sarcasm, derision—such as openly laughing at her—mimicking her voice, and cruel, cutting remarks. Like Mr. Right, he tends to take things she has said and twist them beyond recognition to make her appear absurd, perhaps especially in front of other people. He gets to his partner through a slow but steady stream of low-level emotional assaults, and perhaps occasional shoves or other minor acts of violence that don't generally cause visible injury but may do great psychological harm. He is relentless in his quiet derision and meanness.

The impact on a woman of all these subtle tactics is that either her blood temperature rises to a boil or she feels stupid and inferior, or some combination of the two. In an argument, she may end up yelling in frustration, leaving the room crying, or sinking into silence. The Water Torturer then says, See, you're the abusive one, not me. You're the one who's yelling and refusing to talk things out rationally. I wasn't even raising my voice. It's impossible to reason with you.
The psychological effects of living with the Water Torturer can be severe. His tactics can be difficult to identify, so they sink in deeply. Women can find it difficult not to blame themselves for their reactions to what their partner does if they don't even know what to call it. When someone slaps you in the face, you know you've been slapped. But when a woman feels psychologically assaulted, with little idea why, after an argument with The Water Torturer, she may turn her frustration inward. How do you seek support from a friend, for example, when you don't know how to describe what is going wrong?

The Water Torturer tends to genuinely believe that there is nothing unusual about his behavior. When his partner starts to confront him with his abusiveness—which she usually does sooner or later—he looks at her as if she were crazy and says, What the hell are you talking about? I've never done anything to you. Friends and relatives who have witnessed the couple's interactions may back him up. They shake their heads and say to each other, I don't know what goes on with her. She just explodes at him sometimes, and he's so low-key. Their children can develop the impression that Mom blows up over nothing. She herself may start to wonder if there is something psychologically wrong with her.
The Water Torturer is payback-oriented like most abusive men, but he may hide it better. If he is physically abusive, his violence may take the form of cold-hearted slaps for your own good or to get you to wake up rather than explosive rage. His moves appear carefully thought out, and he rarely makes obvious mistakes—such as letting his abusiveness show in public—that could turn other people against him or get him in legal trouble.

If you are involved with a Water Torturer, you may struggle for years trying to figure out what is happening. You may feel that you overreact to his behavior and that he isn't really so bad. But the effects of his control and contempt have crept up on you over the years. If you finally leave him, you may experience intense periods of delayed rage, as you become conscious of how quietly but deathly oppressive he was.

This style of man rarely lasts long in an abuser program unless he has a court order. He is so accustomed to having complete success with his tactics that he can't tolerate an environment where the counselors recognize and name his maneuvers and don't let him get away with them. He tends to rapidly decide that his group leaders are as crazy as his partner and heads for the door.

The central attitudes driving the Water Torturer are:
• You are crazy. You fly off the handle over nothing.
• I can easily convince other people that you're the one who is messed up.
• As long as I'm calm, you can't call anything I do abusive, no matter how cruel.
• I know exactly how to get under your skin.

With thanks to NettleTea
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/2268977-The-Abuser-Profiles

@crockofshite a phone bag is a small handbag, often cross-body type that pretty much fits a mobile phone and not much else.

Honestly, being able to read into just a look like that, my first thought was a red flag for an abusive relationship.

Mind you, if he said "you're being too loud it's embarrassing" you pointed out it was noisy anyway and he didn't immediately back down... Well the relationship days would be numbered.

I’m surprised more people don’t think YANBU.

I wouldn’t take kindly for being admonished like a child for the crime of rustling a bag, like you need to worry about quiet and decorum in a fast food restaurant.

A lot of PPs are being very harsh here and not reading what's clearly written between the lines.

I think the issue here is that neither of you can properly communicate with words about something so simple. If my DH gave me a dirty look over something so minor, I'd immediately ask him what his problem was without worrying about causing a scene, because I know he'd respond proportionately. If this is missing from your relationship then you have a much deeper problem than what is superficially apparent from your thread, and if this post is reacting to that general situation then no, I don't think you're overreacting at all.

How is the relationship more generally? Do you feel happy and comfortable with this man? Does he respect you? Does he do his share of stuff in the house? Are finances equally shared? Do you laugh together? Do you bring out the best in each other? Does he listen when you talk and value your opinion?

If not, it's time to get out and find someone with whom you can have an equal, mutual, non passive-aggressive relationship. And with whom you can rustle bags without being silently harassed for it.

It sounds like there is a lot more going on in your relationship for this to upset you so much

Next time you feel you need to be the centre of attention why not stand up and go “ LA LA LA LA LA LA” . That way you will know everyone is looking at you and you dont have to make up weird stories about innocent strangers whose expressions you are second guessing.

Oh, this is no way to live, OP. It is an unhealthy dynamic and it must be exhausting for you to remain hyper vigilant to his mood/reactions all the time. I don’t know what advice to give other than for you to get therapy to understand what is going on and to realise that you don’t have to live like this.

*Yes that’s it. And also really difficult because you can’t explain it to other people, as is evident in this thread. ’It’s all in my head’.

I knew what I would get by posting on AIBU though, but I also know there will be posters who get the situation and can give me a better grasp on things. I think I did over react on the face of it but then again, why couldn’t he just verbalise to me that I was making too much noise? Or that I was embarrassing him? Instead of being passive aggressive and arsey.*

But also, this was a burger bar not a hushed restaurant with tinkling piano music playing. Why weren't you "allowed" to have a bit of a rustle around without disapproval?

I get why lots of people are saying you overreacted because that's how it looks on the surface and if you "use your words" to challenge as some suggest then you become the one that has started a fight or is being unreasonable.

I'm willing to bet you spend your life bottling up your feelings and today they exploded?

I'm saddened but not surprised that very few people understand this relationship dynamic but that may be because you posted a single incident on here. It may be worth a more general post in relationships if there's more to it than this one incident.

You need to talk to him rather than guessing what he is thinking. Something like ‘ I’m sensing some disapproval from you. Am I being too noisy?’ may have prevented this.

i have to confess I have a bit of sympathy for him as the sound of people rustling in bags is something that grates on my nerves too.

it can be hard to talk calmly about what happened in that moment, but can you try something now along the lines of ‘ I’d like to try to explain to you why I was so upset earlier. I felt judged by you for making noise and that really hurt to think that you would be embarrassed by my actions. Can you tell me more about what you were thinking about and how you were feeling then?’

I had an incident recently on holiday with DH where I clearly got very upset over something very trivial. With a few hours distance, I tried to articulate to him why that situation set me off into anxiety and (admittedly) not great behaviour. It helped him to understand the source of my reaction (it was to running late) and just talking about it with him made me feel like perhaps next time I’m in a similar situation I could say something rather than reacting in an odd/difficult way.

How bizarre. I'm sure all partners give each other irritated looks sometimes. Your reaction was extreme.

Sorry, misread, thought it was the man at the other table who gave you a look. As you were, apologies, your OH sounds nasty.

Did you miss the part where she has been married to the "innocent stranger" for ten years?
Or did you just gloss over that in your rush to put the boot in?