Is it really that wrong to want for your country what Trump stands for?

[Anniedash]

I know that there are plenty of threads on Trump at the moment, but most of them are designed to rubbish the guy. That’s been done to death in the last 10 years.

He has still won two presidential elections so perhaps it’s time to move the discussion on a bit.Let’s put aside Trump’s personality, bluster, and whether he will deliver or not, for a second.

Is it really so wrong and bad to want to go for what his core message is? Why is the far right label used so liberally and will we ever see a government in this country which can tackle this madness -

A stop to or huge reduction in illegal immigration

Putting your own country first ahead of internationalism. It’s not a novel idea and certainly not a byword for automatically wanting war. In fact Trump’s argument is that war is bad

Saying no the climate hysteria. Climate change is real but climate emergency seems to be a made up concept to simply tax people to death to re distribute taxes to government lobbyists. Why should people accept being poorer in the name of this dangerous ideology

Putting a stop to woke madness. When did it become ok for state sponsored mutilation of children? Men pretending to be women in prison and hospitals getting access to women’s spaces. People being sanctioned do not using the correct pronouns

Driving the economy forward and putting a stop to endless freebies for those who have no intention of contributing to the system and refuse to work because they are sad.

The fact that someone as eccentric as Trump has to fly the flag for common sense ideas shows you just how batshit the political discourse has become.

Oh no! People are talking about things that I don’t like!

Better accuse them of doing a racism! That’ll stop them!

Oh, and throw in anti-semitism, even though we all know it’s the left that has an anti-semitism problem. MASSIVE projection right there

I know - it’s vile.

When a man with a prominent role in the US administration sieg heils at the inauguration and faces no consequences, what else can we expect?

This thread is an absolute bin fire of ignorance and bigotry.

We aren’t calling you racist because you are talking about things we don’t like. We are calling you racist because the conclusions you are drawing are racist.

It’s been explained several times and you have been asked to explain your position several times, but you either won’t or can’t - in the absence of explanation, and taking other things you have said into account, the logical interpretation is that you are racist.

Some figures on the left have definitely had problems with anti-semitism, but we are not a monolith.

What is absolutely clear is that telling someone to ‘get over yourself’ when they ask for kindness on the day we remember the murder of 6 million Jews and 5 million other men, women and children who did not fit the Aryan ideal is fucking abhorrent.

Only a racist would try to minimise it with whataboutery that tars an entire group (the ‘left’) for the actions of a minority.

As before - very on brand.

Examples of Things I don’t like:

• angry rants about how asylum seekers are violent criminals, stealing all our benefits and should be immediately deported regardless of their risk of persecution, torture or death.
• continuous claims that black people on mass are violent criminals and should be incarcerated on mass
• telling someone who points out that it’s holocaust Remembrance Day to “get over themselves”.

Hell yes I don’t like these things and hell yes they are racist and I will call them so.

And much of course from the mouth of a white American from the Deep South who supports trump. Well colour me surprised. Ugh. I’ll take the asylum seekers selling drugs who can’t be deported because of the trans kids any bloody day of the week thanks

Exactly.

For someone to win such a big prize in the life lottery - born in one of the richest nations on earth, to a majority ethnicity - and still be so full of hate and prejudice beggars belief.

There’s such a lack of empathy and understanding for the lives of others.

The one who said ‘get over yourself’ is so full of anger and hate.

And much of course from the mouth of a white American from the Deep South who supports trump

Well I am a Trump voter but I’m NOT from the Deep South. You sure do trade in a lot of weird bigotry, that’s for sure.

Ugh. I’ll take the asylum seekers selling drugs who can’t be deported because of the trans kids any bloody day of the week thanks

Hurty words are literally worse than drug dealers. Sigh. No wonder Britain is going in the wrong direction.

This.

I am proud of Britain being a country that upholds the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Yes, it means that sometimes we have to hold our nose and look after (at His Majesty’s pleasure) undesirable people like this drug dealer but that is preferable to knowingly sending people away to their death.

We don’t have capital punishment in this country - rightly - so allowing it by extension is against British principles.

Again, you are free to vote for whoever you choose, and believe whatever you want, but your racist and un-British attitude isn’t welcome here.

For someone to win such a big prize in the life lottery - born in one of the richest nations on earth, to a majority ethnicity - and still be so full of hate and prejudice beggars belief

Ah you think they don’t deserve to
live in a rich country that was built by their ancestors. Explains a lot about you tbh.

There’s such a lack of empathy and understanding for the lives of others

This from the people that seem to believe elevated rates of rape and homicide are functions of structural racism and poverty. They say this but
then where’s the evidence for it?

I thought OH was considered part of the south. Just looked it up and have been corrected. I guess culturally if not geographically. Sure does seem to produce some pedestrian racism judging by what we’ve read on this thread.

where’s the evidence for it

😂

oh gosh, i don’t know? First hit on google/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4097310/#:~:text=A%20sizable%20body%20of%20empirical,reviews%20by%20Crutchfield%20et%20al.%2C

Little extract for you:

A sizable body of empirical research now exists showing that poverty and other measures of structural disadvantage, family structure, and residential stability are indeed correlated with rates of violence (especially homicide) both across a variety of ecological units and over time (see reviews by Crutchfield et al., 2006; Peterson and Krivo, 2005; Parker and McCall, 1999), and that structural disadvantage strongly impacts both White and Black violence rates (Peterson and Krivo, 2005; Kubrin and Wadsworth, 2003; Parker, 2001; McNulty, 2001; Krivo and Peterson, 2000). A handful of recent studies also point to a prominent role of structural disadvantage variables in explaining Hispanic homicide (Martinez et al., 2010; Steffensmeier et al. 2010; Xie 2010; Shihadeh and Barranco 2010b) and robbery (Cancino et al., 2009).

‘Deserve it’?! How feudal your thinking is. That’s what people used to believe about royalty - they had been chosen by god to rule.

Of course you being born in America is a fucking accident. That’s how birth works. It’s pure luck.

As for building the country - well, I think the murdering, raping and pillaging the settlers did along the way could be construed as taking by force. But it’s ok because they were white and the people being murdered and raped were indigenous, right?

There’s then the fact that quite a lot of the tough work ‘building’ was done by slave labour.

But sure, you deserve it.

There is plenty of evidence that crime of all sorts is linked to poverty. You can go find it on Google Scholar with very little effort. I think you will respond better to looking yourself rather than me sending you things you will only dismiss as biased.

Things are happening every minute or everyday,if someone has something to say it doesn't matter what's going on in the world,it's too happening today the day after the memorial of the holocaust,iam assuming you watched all footage of it yesterday?it is sad I get that but things still are happening and can't put it on hold,all the migrants that came across yesterday didn't think yano what I want bother today it's a memorial for Holocaust,come on think about it,this is now this happening in our life time and all the while there still coming here illegally there taking away our housing,our money even our system coz let's face it the system seems to change on a daily basis at the minute to suite who ever it suites that day

This was interesting:

However, gaps in disadvantage do not fully explain Black-White and Black-Hispanic violence gaps. Much variation remains unexplained. Cultural and social organizational differences may be at play, too, in explaining racial and ethnic differences in violence. In particular, even though gaps in poverty and female headship significantly explained Black-Hispanic homicide and violence gaps, differences in dimensions of disadvantage between Blacks and Hispanics may not be the full explanation of differences in violence between blacks and Hispanics. Note that in Table 1, Black-Hispanic poverty and unemployment gaps are minimal

Hear, hear- it's disgusting!

It’s a mid west flyover state. Not a lot there, although when I’ve been the people I met were kind, funny and compassionate.

I don’t know that the entire state wants lumping in with the racist.

I’m annoyed by her username. Ringo would never countenance such racism; he’s extremely vocal about not being a bigot.

Classic racists - ignore the amazing things that come from immigration and focus on the few bad apples, whilst ignoring the bad apples of their own race.

Of course you being born in America is a fucking accident. That’s how birth works. It’s pure luck

You are born of your people, you could never be born anywhere else, at any other time.

As for building the country - well, I think the murdering, raping and pillaging the settlers did along the way could be construed as taking by force

No different to any other country

Oh my goodness, so angry, chill out mate!

You can’t “fully explain” any complex social outcomes with basic statistical research models. That’s not how they work/ they aren’t that sophisticated.
But what we do have is a huge body of evidence demonstrating powerful/ strong links/ associations between structural forms of disadvantage and violence. Indeed this is perfectly obvious , it’s baffling to me that you would claim to be innocent of this evidence.

Re- “culture” - Again, where do you think this thing people call “culture” comes from if not the structural conditions of society? Black people’s DNA?

Can you just be honest here for a moment please so we can get to the bottom of this? Why do you think that crime is overrepresented in black communities? What do you think is the origin/ cause of that?

Not once have we suggested poverty was the sole reason - as a pp explained, culture is a function of the society in which you live, it is not intrinsic to you like your skin colour is.

You seem to be suggesting that there are intrinsic (ie genetic) reasons behind higher incidences of black crime.

Yet you do not believe there are genetic reasons that white boys are by far the most prevalent mass murderers by school shooting.

Racism. Clearly.

“Of your people”.

Nice little dog whistle there.

Start another thread on it if you like since this is getting filled up. It could be an interesting discussion

Do you want someone so dismissive about the murder of 11 million people as your mate?!