Is it really that wrong to want for your country what Trump stands for?

[Anniedash]

I know that there are plenty of threads on Trump at the moment, but most of them are designed to rubbish the guy. That’s been done to death in the last 10 years.

He has still won two presidential elections so perhaps it’s time to move the discussion on a bit.Let’s put aside Trump’s personality, bluster, and whether he will deliver or not, for a second.

Is it really so wrong and bad to want to go for what his core message is? Why is the far right label used so liberally and will we ever see a government in this country which can tackle this madness -

A stop to or huge reduction in illegal immigration

Putting your own country first ahead of internationalism. It’s not a novel idea and certainly not a byword for automatically wanting war. In fact Trump’s argument is that war is bad

Saying no the climate hysteria. Climate change is real but climate emergency seems to be a made up concept to simply tax people to death to re distribute taxes to government lobbyists. Why should people accept being poorer in the name of this dangerous ideology

Putting a stop to woke madness. When did it become ok for state sponsored mutilation of children? Men pretending to be women in prison and hospitals getting access to women’s spaces. People being sanctioned do not using the correct pronouns

Driving the economy forward and putting a stop to endless freebies for those who have no intention of contributing to the system and refuse to work because they are sad.

The fact that someone as eccentric as Trump has to fly the flag for common sense ideas shows you just how batshit the political discourse has become.

Ok I’ll bite:

A stop to or huge reduction in illegal immigration

• It’s a problem because he does this by stirring up racial hatred, eg calling Mexican immigrants rapists and saying Hatians will eat your pets. If he engaged in non-hateful rhetoric it wouldn’t be such a problem.

Putting your own country first ahead of internationalism. It’s not a novel idea and certainly not a byword for automatically wanting war. In fact Trump’s argument is that war is bad.

• It depends on how much you care about humanity and shared Western values such as freedom from persecution, democracy, etc. Trump’s position is valid, but lots of people have a social conscience the extends beyond the borders of their country. There’s also the fact that WMD have the capacity to destroy the world, not only the countries they’re used in, so we all de facto have an interest in preventing foreign conflict.

Saying no the climate hysteria. Climate change is real but climate emergency seems to be a made up concept to simply tax people to death to re distribute taxes to government lobbyists. Why should people accept being poorer in the name of this dangerous ideology.

• Because the climate emergency is real. Trump here is doing what is popular instead of what is right. He would rather screw the entire world and generations to come than sacrifice his own popularity. It’s despicable and history will damn him for his lack of action on this.

Putting a stop to woke madness. When did it become ok for state sponsored mutilation of children? Men pretending to be women in prison and hospitals getting access to women’s spaces. People being sanctioned do not using the correct pronouns.

• It’s an issue, but again, Trump uses hatred here to gain favour with his voter base. This is a complex issue that he is taking complete advantage of.

Driving the economy forward and putting a stop to endless freebies for those who have no intention of contributing to the system and refuse to work because they are sad.

• Not really sure what you’re on about here because I don’t live in America. I wasn't aware that people are given freebies because they are sad. It sounds like you mean state benefits? I’d guess that tackling the issue at source and addressing the reasons why people are ‘sad’ might be a good starting point, maybe Trump is doing that, IDK?

The fact that someone as eccentric as Trump has to fly the flag for common sense ideas shows you just how batshit the political discourse has become.

• Nah it’s the other way around. The political discourse became batshit. All the crazies found each other online. Trump’s just taking advantage of this.

Saying no the climate hysteria.

I didn’t get past this part. Science denial.

That’s restricted access to abortion and he’s in favour of it, no matter which way you slice it.

I voted YABU because of the OP's insane statement that there's no climate emergency. Also:

Illegal immigrants are the engine of the economy. We need them in America. They do the jobs no one else wants to do, they work really hard, and they pay taxes. For those who don't know, there's a system whereby you can pay taxes even if you're here illegally. America is a massive country with an insane amount of room, and it's built on immigrants. I'm one of them (but not illegal). Perhaps America should make it easier for people who want to work hard to come here. They often come from countries where life is unbearable. I don't blame them. If I lived in one of those countries and I could come here illegally if there wasn't a legal option, I would do the same. I know that illegal immigration is wrong, but they're mostly OK, and it's not something I get that het up about. I know some of them and they're great.

OP's statement about state-sponsored mutilation of children is deeply offensive. I don't agree with under-18s having gender treatment either, but these are usually older teens who have gone through psychological testing and are insisting that this is what they want. This doesn't make it right, but OP has no right to make it sound as if the US government is doing something akin to countries that practise FGM. Those children have no choice, unlike the children who get gender treatment in the US because they are strongly insisting, over a long period of time, on having it.

As for her statement about people who refuse to work because they are sad....absolute typical right-wing misunderstanding of serious mental-health issues, and this, together with the astoundingly ignorant statement that there's no climate emergency, just sums up a typical not-very-bright Trump voter. No compassion for what might drive people to come here illegally, no faith in the science of climate change, hysteria over gender treatment. Also, as to her point about the US putting itself first, wouldn't that be nice, but the trouble is that the size and power and strength of the US makes its role as the world's policeman a hugely stabilizing force in the world order, and if we ignore all the unrest in the world, things will implode and the US will bear the consequences anyway.

OP, what is it that makes you think there's no climate emergency? Is it the wildfires sweeping through California? The unprecedented rains in Europe? The droughts? The severe storms?

I need to phrase this VERY carefully, but although Hitler was in charge there were lots of other people around him who enacted/helped enact the worst policies of the Nazi party. And many more people who stood by and watched it happen.

The Nazis created an environment which encouraged people’s darkest sides. Which is very dangerous.

Although Hitler’s name is the one that is remembered and quoted most often, I think the people we really needed to fear were the people around him.

He's a rich orange white man who despises women. He does not give a fuck about the general population other than what he can get from them (power/ adoration/ money) and certainly does not want to improve their lives. People of colour are even further down that list.

He's been put into power by wealthy corporations. I'm astounded that people aren't seeing the comparisons with 1933 Germany. The hate, derision, misinformation, lies, propaganda, lack of education. There's no excuse for it.

Sorry what about Charlottesville was a lie?

This. This is what it boils down to and this is why he's in power. And somehow he managed to convince a lot of non rich people that he'll make them so too if the voted for him.

The poor, the environment, medical services, wanting your kid to be able to go to school without getting a bullet in them? Oh screw those. Money talks.

Climate hysteria?
I suppose the LA fires were overdone …

I think a lot of people are seeing the comparison with 1930s Germany. We see the comparisons here too - with the race riots that took place in the summer. It's why so many people label this rhetoric as far right but we get shouted down and told that these people are just "patriots" who've "had enough". I find it scary.

Agree, the “liberal gullibles” have wrecked Britain. Any opposition or even questioning has been silenced by the blob, and more recently the Courts.

All we can do is hope for some kind of renewal with emerging political leaders.

It's all the hatred and shit stirring that's wrong with his policies.

It's the deterioration of women's rights, ostraciseing of anyone that isn't white & straight and the glorification of violence.

That's what stands behind these policies.

I don't agree with the comparison with Nazi Germany, because Trump is not rounding people up for their religion, smashing their businesses, making them wear special badges, restricting their abilities to go where they want and do what they want, making them live in ghettos, and sending them to camps. I think it's very disrespectful to Jewish people to make those comparisons.

Where's "here"? Which country are you in?

Trump was on tv yesterday - I was only half watching but think it was some sort of rally. I had to switch off because it was just bonkers! It boggles the mind that a man like Donald Trump could even get close to running the most powerful country in the world once but he gets to do it for a 2nd time! The term “Orange Hitler” is hilarious & terrifying in equal measure.

The Nazis didn’t say they were going to do all of that when they got elected tho. They got elected then refuse to give up power. Which trump tried to do in 2020.

That’s the truly frightening thing about the Nazis, Stalin and Mao killed far more people but they didn’t get elected. The Nazis were elected. People didn’t expect things to get as bad as they did when they voted for them.

All that came later on. It start with scapegoating, with an "us and them", othering mentality. His language is absolutely far right at times.

UK which is why I mentioned the riots that happened last summer.

Do you remember when Trump made fun of the reporter with a disability

Yeah that's also part of his core message!

He deliberately devised and followed a policy of maximum harm to children and families crossing the border from Mexico. That tells me most of what I need to know about him.

Yes exactly the same was true of Boris, the silly fake bluster, messy hair etc.. all part of his strategy.

I think Trump is a necessary reaction to a move too far to what is called the left these days.

Globalisation and unfettered immigration has benefited the wealthy far more than Trump ever will. The liberal left has pretended that it is about being nice, educated and compassionate whereas a lot of the reality of globalisation has been holding inflation down by importing cheap labour to displace the domestic working classes, the one disadvantaged class they really don’t care about.

Also, the idea that all cultures are equal is quite a dangerous one. Multiculturalism has been a disaster. Accepting people who don’t accept you and your basic values is only going to lead to trouble.

So a swing back in the pendulum was long overdue, but some of Trump’s rhetoric is truly scary. He does seem to have racist tendencies and is probably a misogynist. It is good to move a little away from globalism and back towards patriotism, as long as that doesn’t swing to jingoism and aggressive nationalism.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. It will certainly be interesting !

Are most people using chgpt to start or answer posts now? I can't understand how people have the time to formulate such well argued/informed posts alt atm.

He is terrible because he has done what farage did here. He encouraged disadvantaged people to turn on even more disadvantaged people so they wouldn’t turn on the rich and powerful who are the real reason they are disadvantaged. Watch them fight those that can’t fight back while making sure your wealth and power grows. Farage was an ex banker not a rucking man of the people.

Way before he president he bullied and harassed a Scottish person who didn't want to give up their land for his golf course in Scotland. That told me all I needed to know about him. I had no idea he'd become president, but I knew he was a loathsome person. Since then, he's done and said hundreds of different things that confirm how loathsome he is.