Hubs won't get the snip!!

[241719robs]

Am I being unreasonable that my hubby wont even consider getting the snip? He just replies with 'maybe one day'.

We have children already and I am 99% DONE. My body has been through enough and mentally Im burnt out. After contraception for years, pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding I dont want to go back on contraception or risk condoms etc. I know vasectomies are not 100% but better than me having to go through invasive procedures again. Im also late for my period and after 2 negative pregnancy tests Ive explained how unfair it is for me to be worrying about this every month. He basically ignored me as he knew what I was getting at.

Am I being a b*tch? Hes not had to go through anything physically and its not like I’m asking him to chop his bits off 🥲

Go together for an information session to a doctor so that you are both informed about what it is he's saying NO to.
Ask about his fears. Does he want to freeze sperm?

Ultimately you can't force him but you can control whether you have unprotected sex.

Calling her position “bizarre” and “unreasonable” while insisting she has no right to make “demands” of what he does with his body, is nothing more than a thinly veiled double standard . Like most of the world, you appear to place ultimate value on the individual, bodily autonomy of men, while viewing women’s bodies as serviceable/ communal property.

Wow. That's a stretch.

It's not a double standard to say that if a man is willing to use condoms he is taking responsibility for contraception as that is the only option available to him that doesn't include surgery. The equivalent of that from a female point of view would be if her husband didn't trust hormonal contraception and refused to have sex with her unless she had a coil fitted. She refuses because she doesn't want a painful procedure but is happy to use other contraceptive methods, however her husband says this isn't good enough it's coil or no sex then had the audacity to complain about a sexless marriage. Everyone would quite rightly be outraged.

Everyone has the right to bodily autonomy, I don't care if it's man or woman, they simply have the right to refuse surgery and not be pressured by their partner. End of.

Where have I said that her body is communal property? It's always her body her choice, no one made her have the children, she chose to have them because she wanted them.

I've never said she owes her husband sex, I don't believe she does for a minute. She is the one complaining that they aren't having sex because her husband won't comply with her wishes. It seems he's quite unbothered about the lack of sex so it really is her problem not his. And I stand by my statement that it is bizarre to only accept sterilisation or abstinence. I've never met anyone with such a black and white view on it, contraception is available for a reason. Most people use it rather than deny themselves a sex life.

As for condoms being weird in a long term relationship, seems silly to me. I told my husband I wasn't using contraception anymore because all of the methods I tried gave me awful side effects. So it was condoms. He said fine and we used them for years. Really don't see what's weird about that.

Anecdotal evidence of one couple getting pregnant on condoms means nothing. You know that. I got pregnant with a coil, many friends got pregnant on the pill, yet OP has been happy using these methods in the past and quotes side effects as the reason for not using them not lack of reliability so it really is looking like personal preference for her rather than an evidence based approach, which is again her problem.

Ultimately her husband doesn't want surgery, which is his right and doesn't seem bothered about the lack of sex. He's not demanding anything of the OP and is respecting her choice not to have sex with contraception. So she isn't being hard done by or disrespected at all. She needs to either accept contraception or abstinence because those are the options presented to her and actually her husband isn't pressuring her either way. And both are reasonable options.

If her husband was pressuring her for unprotected sex, or demanding she use contraception, or refusing to wear condoms you would have a point. But he isn't.

As for condoms being weird in a long term relationship, seems silly to me. I told my husband I wasn't using contraception anymore because all of the methods I tried gave me awful side effects. So it was condoms. He said fine and we used them for years. Really don't see what's weird about that.

I never said it was “weird” at all. You were the one insisting that condoms are “fine” and it’s “bizarre” OP didn’t want to use them. I was simply pointing out that - far from “bizarre” most stable couples don’t choose condoms as a method of long term contraception. There are a lot of options between “bizarre” on one end, and “weird” on the other. I think you are the one with black and white thinking here . Condoms are a valid choice for those who are comfortable using them. It’s also a perfectly valid choice to say - I don’t want to take that risk.

Anecdotal evidence of one couple getting pregnant on condoms means nothing.

It doesn’t “mean nothing”; equally it’s not generalisable, which is why I pointed out (firstly) that data from actual research also supports OP’s concern that condoms , as a long term method of contraception , frequently result in unwanted pregnancy. Then highlighted an example from this very thread of a woman who found herself in the very situation that OP wants to avoid.
OP’s concerns are entirely reasonable.

OP has been happy using these methods in the past
As has been pointed out previously that was before she had children- so a completely different set of considerations, and in no way undermines her reasons for not wanting to use condoms in the situation she is in now.

It seems he's quite unbothered about the lack of sex so it really is her problem not his
doesn't seem bothered about the lack of sex. He’s not demanding anything of the OP and is respecting her choice not to have sex with contraception.*

Not sure where you got this idea from- I beleive you made this up entirely. In fact OP said that rather she was finding herself worrying every month about pregnancy- so presumably they have been having sex.

She needs to either accept contraception or abstinence because those are the options presented to her

!!!! You were the one saying that it was completely bizarre and outrageous for OP to present this kind of ultimatum to her partner? But when she is confronted with such an ultimatum from him , it’s totally cool and she has to just “accept it”?

Honestly , the double standards are blindingly obvious for all to see.

Ultimate from OP - have surgery or no sex

Options available from husband (which are not an ultimatum) condoms or other barrier methods. He is not saying use condoms or no sex, so he is not giving an ultimatum.

She is free to choose not to accept contraception but it is not an ultimatum because they are reasonable options that are easy to use and don't impose on OPs person at all, she just doesn't like them. Also her husband doesn't appear to be refusing to have sex with her unless she uses his preferred method of contraception, so again, not an ultimatum.

You're just desperate to make this into a double standard thing but it's not.

So the options presented to OP as a result of her husband's preferences do not count as "an ultimatum" because "they are reasonable options that are easy to use and don't impose on OPs person at all, she just doesn't like them".

The options presented to husband as a result of OP's preferences are most definitely an ultimatum, because a vasectomy is not a "reasonable option", not at all "easy" and most certainly "imposes on Husband's person".

It's not at all that OP's husband "just doesn't like" it [vasectomy]. No, no - his choices are self evidently objective and reasonable; hers are self evidently subjective and unreasonable.

No double standards / misogyny / dismissal of women's (bodily) autonomy to see here. None at all....

(Also, for the last time, for the record - not that you will acknowledge it: OP doesn't want to use condoms because they present a significant, evidence-based, risk of unwanted pregnancy, which is a severe/serious imposition on OP's person).

I don't really agree with this. It's still his decision. What purpose does it serve having OP sit there? So she can say "aw if I was a man I'd get it done, it sounds grand"?

ok, this one is a bit better. It is a meta analysis focussed on PVPS, so a literature review of lots of different studies, including scalpel and non-scalpel vasectomies.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7084350/

The verbiage in Table 2 does not always differentiate between acute / chronic, nor between mild / severe, but it many of the studies, the pain was troublesome and persisted long beyond 3 months and was incident in far more than 1-2% of cases.

I had always used a diaphragm but being perimenopausal and didn't want want any accidents. My partner refused to get a vasectomy (some minor, imagined risk to him) so I had my tubes tied. Yes, it's invasive. Yes, he should have done stepped up, but it was the easier option as far as I was concerned.

I couldn't be in any sort of relationship with somebody who would let me go through an invasive procedure like this after everything my body had already been through. I'm sorry, but I think that is so sad.

What part of OPs request for a vasectomy imposes on her husband's body but the use of barrier methods which don't impose on her person is not clear to you?

He isn't asking her to undergo any procedure. She is asking him to undergo a procedure. It is not the same.

Just because you minimise a vasectomy as minor, reasonable and easy doesn't mean it's a non issue for him to have a surgical procedure he does not want.

Vasectomy or no sex = ultimatum (because there are only two options and if she doesn't get her way, no sex.

No vasectomy but a range of non hormonal/barrier contraceptives available= not an ultimatum because there are a few options available and he is not saying my one choice or no sex is he? There are multiple options available, which by definition is not an ultimatum.

I'm not dismissing her bodily autonomy at all, I'm just disagreeing with her view that barrier methods aren't sufficient and vasectomy is the only safe contraceptive measure. As said many times she is perfectly entitled to say no vasectomy no sex, but she is not entitled to demand a vasectomy or complain about a lack of sex if she follows through with her ultimatum, which is what she is doing here and the whole thread is about, because that is her choice to be sexless. She is entitled to her bodily autonomy, she isn't entitled to her husbands. And she isn't entitled to complain about the results of exercising her bodily autonomy because she didn't get the outcome she wanted, or that would be emotional blackmail wouldn't it.

Yes, there's usually a waiting list of a good few months from gp referral, to the actual procedure itself, as there is for most NHS treatments/ops I suppose. It'll depend on your area though; dh was lucky as I think he only waited around 6 months, or less. If you haven't already, ring you gp surgery and query the date the referral went in, and then check at the other end to see when they received it, and ask what the next step is, and roughly how long it'll take to get to that step.

Nonsense. That's a series of mostly small, extremely varied studies. Not even over the same time frames, with no idea as to how pain/discomfort has been qualified. Very far from conclusive of anything at all.

But you acknowledge there is pain? And most people want to avoid pain?

FFS, there is far more pain in child birth, and all a woman goes through, more invasion, more long-term complications. There is literally no comparison.
Maybe women should avoid having babies because it is too painful, despite them BOTH wanting dcs. This way when it comes to them BOTH wanting no more dcs, the woman won't have to deal with a wet lettuce of a man, who puts all of the responsibility onto her, because he cannot deal with this small simple procedure because it may cause alittle 'pain.'
I bet if these men had erectile dysfunction that only a small op could treat (on the level of a vasectomy)/going bald etc and could have a free small procedure to sort it out, they would be there in a shot! It is absolute BS.

That's the crux of it though isn't it. Choice. Women choose to go through child birth because they want to have children. If a husband chooses not to have a vasectomy, that is his choice who h he is entitled to. His wife is then entitled to choose whether to use contraceptive options available or not have sex. Everybody has CHOICE. Nobody is owed a vasectomy in return for childbirth. Nobody is saying it is equal, you're using that to make a point, a point that is irrelevant because regardless of who suffered what, everybody is entitled to choice over what happens to their own body. And of course a woman can choose not have children to avoid the pain of child birth. Many women do this.

What part of OPs request for a vasectomy imposes on her husband's body but the use of barrier methods which don't impose on her person is not clear to you? Just because you minimise a vasectomy as minor, reasonable and easy doesn't mean it's a non issue for him to have a surgical procedure he does not want

What part of insisting on the use of barrier methods DOES impose on her person is not clear to you? Condoms carry a much more significant risk of pregnancy (than vasectomy): risk of pregnancy is a very significant imposition on OP's person (psychologically and physically). OP has outlined her stress and anxiety every month in her OP.
Just because you minimise this risk as non-existent, doesn't mean it's a non issue for OP to have sex using a form of contraception that she does not want and doesn't feel safe.

In fact, while you have repeatedly minimised OP's concerns about condoms as "bizarre" (no less), I never once minimised a vasectomy as minor, reasonable and easy. I actually don't happen to think it's a minor ask at all. I simply pointed out the hypocrisy/ gender bias underlying your assumption that the things that impose on HIM and HIS body are significant/ important; while the things that impose on HER and HER body are not even worthy of even being considered a meaningful imposition.

Your point about "number of options" is irrelevant as to whether it is an ultimatum or not. If OP said, OK, you want more options, either 1) vasectomy , 2) chop off your balls, 3) take anabolic steroids, or no sex, would you consider that less of an ultimatum? That would be absurd. Definition of an ultimatum "a final demand or statement of terms, the rejection of which will result in retaliation*.

As said many times she is perfectly entitled to say no vasectomy no sex, but she is not entitled to demand a vasectomy or complain about a lack of sex if she follows through with her ultimatum, which is what she is doing here and the whole thread is about

Actually it's categorically not what the thread is about at all, or in any way what OP "is doing".
You have completely invented the idea that OP has given this ultimatum and that she is complaining about a lack of sex. Yet another example of the misogynistic assumptions underlying your argumentation.
For all we know it is OP's DH that is insisting on sex and causing her stress every month, while she's not even particularly bothered about getting laid! Let's be real, at a certain stage in life sex tends to be much more of a priority for men on the whole than women (not saying that's always the case, but there's absolutely no basis whatsoever for assuming the reverse).

Anyway, I'm done with this conversation as it's a complete waste of time, since you are clearly completely incapable of opening your mind to the possibility that just because you feel condoms are "sufficient" and "safe", doesn't mean that everyone else feels, or should feel, the same way.

Well considering her response to "tell him no vasectomy, no sex" was I'm worried my relationship will dwindle if I do that shows she's not happy about a lack of sex doesn't it. Or she wouldn't be here, she would have just said no vasectomy, no sex, gone abstinent then gone about her abstinent life happily and not needed a Mumsnet thread to hash out the fact that she's pissed off. So no, it's not a misogynistic assumption, it's reading what was written and inferring. Not everything is misogyny just because you don't agree with it. Typical Mumsnet trope there.

Barrier methods do not impose on her person because she can just refuse to have sex using them. Then she isn't infringed on. Simple.

You're the one calling things "bizarre" I just thought I'd join in throwing belittling terms around as you seem to be having fun doing it!

The fact that she can just not have sex if she isn't happy with the options available to her seems to offend you. Can't understand why other than you think she is owed a vasectomy due to her going through child birth as other posters keep banging on about.

Contraception is available, if she doesn't want to use it then that's her perogative, as is abstinence. Vasectomy isn't her choice though and he doesn't owe her one.

Glad you're done because this is like banging my head against a brick wall.

Not really. Most people tolerate pain or discomfort sometimes.

@Soontobe60 because that is the choice. For some women hormonal contraceptives don't agree with them, so they can't take them, so then the other choice is condoms, which men don't seem to like, so why is it not the man's turn to do something about contraceptives and have a minor 15 min op under local. It's not really that big a deal. Why is it always the women's responsibility. Very selfish attitude.

Exactly, adults definitely do, when it is for the benefit of not only them, but their family too. A man can't just flippantly announce that he doesn't want more children, then do nothing about it, expecting the woman to deal with yet more burden.
Honestly, I am just elated. I don't have a husband like this. In my family, it is always your body your choice, of course, but that includes entertaining conversations, thorough research, and empathising with all feelings/health and experiences involved. We then agree on the best possible, safest low-risk solution to benefit all, based on the result we jointly want to achieve.

I was always fine on the combined pill. no side effects, no scares. recently because of my weight and blood pressure, they switched me to progesterone only, and I bled for a month and a half, and my sex drive has gone AWOL. I don't know if it's just because of the different pill, or partly psychological from being taken off something I've grown to trust completely. so now I'm on the waiting list for a tubal. we discussed other options. the coil would not work for me because of my very delicate cervix (enlarged ectropian) and the doctor thinks if I have the implant, they are less likely to agree to sterilisation, as it covers you for so long. but that's an option I'd consider if I get refused it. I wish I could have had it done 20 years ago, but obviously, no woman knows what she wants, right?
if I'm refused it, Husband said he would consider a vasectomy. but he's very anxious about medical stuff, which is why I've not pushed him. it's his body and up to him. I appreciate the fact he will at least consider it if I can't get what I want.
my mum had a verge of menopause pregnancy, I think sometimes the human body has a right, this is the last chance moment, and throws everything at it. and I just don't want to risk it, even though I doubt I'm particularly fertile.

It’s his body and his right to decide if the snip is the right choice for him. You can’t make him and I wouldn’t try to enforce it. However, it’s also your right to decide what is right for you and your body too. So if that means that it’s on him to sort preventative measures ie., his responsibility to ensure condoms then so be it. If you don’t want to risk sex either then I think it’s important to explain this in a way without coming across as giving him an ultimatum. I’m not saying this to be critical, I completely understand where you are coming from!

I was on combined and it was great ... apart from my blood pressure went so high I was considered a stroke risk.

Tried mirena coil. Insertion etc fine but within a couple months I was bleeding constantly, got cervical ectropions that I had to have lasered off, put on 10kg, zero sex drive, anxiety. All reversed very quickly once removed.

That's when we moved to condoms which worked for us with no issues for several years.

Errrr... yes? My husband and I both want children, but after four years of fertility issues and multiple failed pregnancies, it's not looking very likely... Should he leave me because he's not happy to be 'effectively' infertile (the issues are mine)? 🤔I seem to remember something about 'Until death do us part' in our marriage vows!