DS spends all his time with GF and she doesn’t speak to us

[DinnerOfKings]

Hoping for some advice …… DS-17 has adhd and struggled a great deal at school. Always had mates and always out and about. But he really struggled with school and was suspended many times. We supported him throughout and actually developed a very strong relationship ( me and DH who is his dad). We have always been a close family and very present in their lives ( sports day, lifts, sleepovers, watching films together, lovely holidays).

DS now at college ( think BTEC physical work - don’t want to be too outing) and made new mates and much happier in the college environment. During half term he went to a party and met a girl. He’s had a few GF before, but nothing serious. He instantly felt a connection with this girl and started spending all his time with her.

Now I know this is all normal etc but the issue is that she is apparently very shy. She literally won’t say 2 words to any of us…. I’ve tried talking to her, leaving her be, offering her food etc, talking to my son and not asking ger anything. But she just stands there looking angry …. she literally just says “good” or “no” or “yes”. No hello how you - no - thank you for having me.

DH and I have always got on with all our kids friends and have always had an open house policy. Quite often they have had big gatherings, multiple friends round and we’ve always talked and got on with every single one of them. DS now spends every night with this girl. He only sees his mates really with her and she barely talks to them. When she’s in son’s room, just the two of them she’s laughing and joking and then……. Nothing.

Im trying so hard not to react as I know she’s 16.5 and evidently shy. But - and I can’t really describe it - it creates a weird atmosphere in the house. It’s like a total stranger who barely acknowledges my existence is sleeping under my roof. I’ve talked to my son and explained that he could convey to her how important his family is, and try to encourage her to make more effort…. She is an apprentice so presumably has to talk in the workplace.

I’ve explained to DS that it’s quite limiting as she can’t / won’t join us for meals, going to the pub etc and the consequence is we hardly see him as he wants to be with her.

I think it’s hard for me as I feel like we were so close and now he’s with someone who just isn’t interested. For reference she doesn’t look meek when she’s in our company she just looks very cross at him …… one side of me thinks - it will all come out in the wash, she is very shy, and this is his way of detaching as all teens are meant to and either she will get better or they will split up. Other side of me thinks she might be trying to isolate him from friends and family.

Pls be kind but advice or experience gratefully received ….. I know there isn’t physically anything I can actually do but it’s really unpleasant either never seeing him or him always being with her and this weird atmosphere

They're very young OP so it's highly unlikely she'll be a permanent fixture. So my advice is to get on with your lives as normal and let this be. Even if she were the friendliest girl in the world, you'd still be seeing less of DS as they'd still prefer to be in his room, at her house or with friends than spending time with the rest if you, so try not to see her behaviour as the root of that. Carry on greeting her and speaking as you usually would. Don't make a special effort, and wait it out. If they're still together in 6 months then maybe a strategy is in order.

It's really not that difficult for an autistic person to spot autism in another person. We're usually pretty obsessed with it and know as much as most experts.

It's really not that difficult for an autistic person to spot autism in another person. We're usually pretty obsessed with it and know as much as most experts.

I have an autism diagnosis as well.
The girl might do, but her description of her looking mardy as I said sounds a lot like my SIL, who doesn't have an autism diagnosis, and to my mind is more personality-disordered if I had to attempt to class her as anything.

Agree with this @Eaglemom . maybe she does have selective mutism- but maybe she doesn’t. I think you are very sensitive around this issue for personal reasons and perhaps need to be a little more objective/accepting of others experiences/opinions.

I thinks it’s absolutely fine to mention selective mutism as a possibility for OP to consider or share knowledge about how it can present. It is absolutely not right to state it as an almost certainty that this young women has selective mutism and suggest there is little possibility of it being due to anything else, nor to use really quite emotive language around it, when OP is obviously quite worried. It could be there is a good explanation. But it is also possible there could be something less benign evolving here- if we are basing diagnosis/reasons based on personal experiences, here’s mine:

One of my brother’s girlfriends (at a similar age) could be described quite similarly to this young woman. She acknowledged some people, whilst totally ignoring others-or gave one word answers if she had to-. She would turn her back on us without answering or even whilst you were talking- just walk away as though you weren’t there or hadn’t said anything. She did not appear happy if my brother was talking to anyone else- even his own family, in his own home, if she was there. She had him up to his room as soon as possible, where they’d stay until she left- other than to come out for refreshments (or rather, he was sent out to take to the room- my mother drew the line at meals taken to his room for the most part). She definitely did not want to spend time with his family/friends and gradually restricted what he did with them (and us) more and more. Initially, we were told she was “shy”, so didn’t speak much to people she didn’t know and didn’t want to be around his friends either for the same reason. She had friends, was in education and appeared to be able to interact at school/with her own friends etc.

unfortunately, it turned out that she was actually very controlling towards him and highly manipulative, negatively impacted his friendships, tried to isolate him from everyone and, ultimately, caused quite a lot of damage to his self-esteem. He was totally infatuated, or in love (depending in how you see it)- they definitely had quite an intense relationship- I recognise this is not uncommon in teens, especially first sexual relationships. He was quite vulnerable at the time, though, and it was a horrible, damaging situation for him. It was not a fun time for our family either. Ultimately, he eventually listened to friends and his siblings, saying “this is not ok for her to do this to you” and ended the relationship (which was difficult in itself as she didn’t take it well).

However, by your measure she would fit the criteria for selective mutism. And we should all have just been understanding, unquestioning and just accepted it as her having a difficulty that she couldn’t help- you know, just in case that was the case. If we had done that, I don’t know how long the situation would have continued.

I don’t doubt that my brother’s ex-gf had reasons for her behaviour, but it doesn’t excuse it. It may well be the case that this is in no way relevant to OP’s son’s GF, perhaps she does have mutism or ASD. Or perhaps she is just shy and a bit rude. I don’t think I can say, really. Nor can you.

It could be selective mutism (a child in my DS’ class has it) but I find it a little difficult to believe that she wouldn’t have shared this with your DS and that he would simply think she is shy if that is the case. Not impossible but pretty unlikely. As for appearing angry, the child I know that has SM does give the appearance of being angry, bless her. Her mother is lovely and I’ve been to their house a few times. I say hello to the child but she does just give an angry look. What is clear is that she is neurodiverse. Her mother only explained recently that it was SM and it makes complete sense. This child is in primary school though. It’s hard to imagine something as debilitating as SM wouldn’t be picked up at all by age 16. I suppose it’s impossible for those on the thread to know.

The difference is that the GF is demonstrating a lack of functionality in her non verbal communication. She does not appear to be experiencing the emotion of anger, just adopting a facial expression that would indicate anger.
Your SIL, if she has a personality disorder will actually be feeling the emotion of anger, however unjustified.
Whilst this obviously is not enough to diagnose autism, it does evidence impaired social communication which is one of the diagnostic criteria.

She does not appear to be experiencing the emotion of anger, just adopting a facial expression that would indicate anger.
Your SIL, if she has a personality disorder will actually be feeling the emotion of anger, however unjustified.

Do we know this, though? The gf might or might not be feeling anger, either may be true. We have no way of telling.

Unless the OP comes back with a drip feed that something had happened to make her angry, it's very unlikely.
Autistic people can struggle to process, describe and respond to their emotions. They don't get angry with no stimulus...
Edited as posted too soon...

There's being shy and then there's being absolutely ridiculous and rude. No one should act like this beyond the age of 6. How the hell will she cope in the workplace?

Oh, that's the solution! If only someone had explained to my autistic/ SM child that they were being absolutely ridiculous and rude when they were 6. Then they wouldn't have had a nervous breakdown at 17 and now be 25, still living at home on high level PIP and with an adult social worker and a carer to help them leave the house.

Sod, if only I had known.

I too was shamed for this very thing, it can be overcome with help, and compassion from others, and with effort from the GF. The type of disability matters much less than you think in this case. But no, I am cruel, I suppose, for stating that she can improve with actual help and the will to try.

Autistic people can struggle to process, describe and respond to their emotions. They don't get angry with no stimulus...

Again though, her being autistic is purely speculative. She could just be rude and bad-tempered for all we know.

OP, you clearly are willing to be patient and kind to this young lady, and I hope it turns out well for all. Thank you for not judging her.

If you had said she could improve with actual help and compassion from others I would have agreed wholeheartedly.

This is a useful guide for anyone on the thread who wants to learn more about selective mutism (whether or not the OP's girlfriend has it!)

https://www.services.derbyshire.gov.uk/Pages/Download/eee57f4d-dbea-48ef-9968-4678b65f808b/PageSectionDocuments#:~:text=Research%20indicates%20that%20the%20mean,than%20one%20month%2C%20but%20not

I think I was a lot like this at that age. Specifically with my boyfriend's father and step-mum, who were really loud and outgoing and overwhelming. They thought I was a total freak and made it clear straightaway. I did say hello and so forth but it was just not comfortable for me to be around them and feeling judged. (They also disapproved of my appearance, it was clear.) Fast forward many years later (because the ex-boyfriend became a good friend again) and by then I presented as a fairly normal person. The father and step-mum found it hilarious to recount what a freak I was a teen. I was just a really shy person who never knew what to say and maybe also had an angry expression. I'd just leave it and hope she warms up. I don't think it accomplishes a lot to hassle him or her about it...

She might be angry at people she doesn't know for no reason...that doesn't seem very likely
I feel you are clutching at straws a little.

She might be angry at people she doesn't know for no reason...that doesn't seem very likely

She might be moody and jealous. Not clutching at straws - my SIL can lliterally get the hump and get jealous if my brother gives too much attention to what she deems to be the wrong person at the wrong time.
It's no more clutching at straws than the plethora of armchair diagnosis she's been gifted with.

My brother married a woman like this.... she came across as shy but I know she's just a rude bitch.

We all look forward to his second wife.

You seem lovely. How surprising that she wasn’t warm towards you…

I agree with this.

Whatever she feels might be shyness but choosing to not engage in conversation is just rude. If she is capable of going to school or work and having friends and relationships then she is capable of speaking a few words. Even if those words were 'I'm sorry I am shy and don't like to talk much' is fair enough and to be respected. The fact is she is choosing to make you incredibly uncomfortable and is happy with that. Yet you are expected to be able to read her mind and go to lengths to put her at ease. Complete self absorption which is very common (IMO) in people who claim shyness.

She sounds like a rude nightmare! Why isn’t your son embarrassed by her behaviour? I’d just continue to be friendly and rise above it.

Try to stop being so intense with him…:they’re just teenagers. The worst thing you can do
is criticise her, that will just drive him further into her arms. Don’t give her any ammo against you.

My younger cousin married someone like this and it’s really damaged family relations. He’s silent, sullen, lazy, not engaged with any family vibe and my cousin ‘compensates’ for him but she knows nobody likes him. We’ve all tried over the years to be inclusive and pander to his personality (ie he acts like he hates us all). People are perfectly generous and make sure he is comfortable and catered for, but there is only so much you can put up with. He’s just absent from family gatherings now as it has caused so much ill feeling. Nobody misses him. He’s a drain.

I don’t blame you op for being unsettled about your son having this girl in his life. It’s all very well saying it’s not her fault and that she is neurodivergent but how do you distinguish between that and sheer bloody rudeness? If she can laugh and chat to him in his room, she is perfectly capable of saying basic words like hello and goodbye. She needs to know that you don’t expect a theatrical performance, but you do expect a basic level of acknowledgement and respect in your own home, even if that was a quick nod or a simple hand wave.

were they saying things or just their natural gregariousness made you feel ill/shy?

this is is it, you can't know, you can't ask directly.

bing shy and selectively mute are different and its really hard to know if you are doing the right thing by talking to someone and including them even if they dont respond or to just leave them alone :(

when they're your own family you have context and know that they generally know you mean well and will include them regardless. for new people gauging the right response is hard!

This is the most ridiculous comparison I have ever seen on mumsnet and having been here since inception, I've seen a lot.