To think we have gone wrong with kids as a nation?

arcticpandas · 09/01/2025 13:52

I think the punishment should be in proportion to what happened and also serve a purpose. Writing 100 lines was just plain stupid. My son's math teacher gives some extra work to those who have been too talkative. That's intelligent because the parents will be onboard as well.

At home the punishment is always to take away gaming time because it works so well.

holju · 09/01/2025 13:54

I think it's generally too soft at primary, and generally too draconian at high school. I think we definitely don't have the balance right.

Purpleturtle46 · 09/01/2025 13:54

I am a teacher with three school aged kids of my own and it's just a disaster! 'All behaviour is communication' is the mantra now. No punishments, very little you can do. All about inclusion in mainstream but no staffing to support it, so impossible for the class teacher to manage.

Parents don't support you but are very quick to complain. Kids scared and anxious to come to school with all the bad behaviour from other pupils making it an intimidating environment.

I, like a lot of teachers, want out. I can't see how it will go well in the future when kids grow up thinking they can do what they like with no consequences!

grumpyoldeyeore · 09/01/2025 14:02

It was like this in inner London comps in 1980’s. My school experience was miserable because bad behaviour that wasn’t challenged. It’s not new the same cycles come and go (and the consultants keep earning the money claiming it’s a new approach).

Rocknrollstar · 09/01/2025 14:06

It’s not the schools that are too soft but the parents. It all starts at home. Children think the world revolves around them and parents are frightened to parent and say no. How are the teachers supposed to deal with these children?

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 09/01/2025 14:13

The thing with "all behaviour is communication" is that our behaviour as parents is communication too.

Whilst it has to be age appropriate, there's nothing wrong with showing our children that they've upset us and their behaviour has consequences.

LittleRedRidingHoody · 09/01/2025 14:13

I feel like this. It also massively goes to parenting - I cannot believe the number of posts on MN about toddlers who don't want to put their coats on/take hours to get out of the house basically holding their parents hostage. These parents (and many I've met in real life) seem scared to 'make' their children do something for fear of scaring them for life. I'm not suggesting punishment or fear, just the general understanding that the parent is in charge and the child needs to do as their told.

DS is 5 and comes home upset some days because of misbehaviour that's not been challenged at all. Kids shoving/hitting each other seem to be forever labelled 'accidents' ~ I know their young but DS has known since he was 2 this behaviour is not okay, and suddenly I'm having to explain that some children are 'allowed' to behave like that, but I still don't want him pushing/hitting anyone!

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 09/01/2025 14:31

I've been thinking about this a lot. I think you are right, we need to go back in time when parents parented and schools supported with education and discipline.

HappyMamma2023 · 09/01/2025 14:39

Our little one isn't 2 yet but a lot of friends with older kids tell me similar things. I'm hoping by the time he's at school things will have improved! We've had a couple of tantrums and he has cried a couple of times when we've told him No, but nothing major to test us yet. Sometimes he has a cheeky laugh when we say No and it's so hard not to smile, but I dont want him to realise its funny because we'll be creating a future problem!
On the other hand, my niece 6 months younger 'refuses' to get into the car seat and my SIL said it can take 20 mins to strap her in after nursey 😬 it may be easy for me to say but I wouldn't be letting her think its an option.

username299 · 09/01/2025 14:41

It's these spineless hand wringers, they're creating feral children who get away with whatever they want.

Magamaga · 09/01/2025 14:42

ABigBarofChocolate · 09/01/2025 13:49

I've been working with kids for a long time and through the years, forms of "punishment" have changed so much.

You hear the whole " when I was at school we got the belt/ruler/??" I don't condone that all.

When I was at school, you got a punishment exercise (writing the same sentence 100 times) or you just didn't get any rewards at the end of the week because your merit chart wasn't full. Very badly behaved kids would either get sent to the HT office or be suspended with work to do.

My DCs school are having a hard time just now. You're basically not allowed to say No to kids these days. It's all positive reinforcement. Don't punish, distract. Etc.

So when the same 2 kids are physically hurting other people's kids or are giving others verbal abuse daily...how are they supposed to handle it?

Did we go wrong when we were told by education big wigs that we were no longer able to make a child feel bad for what they've done to another? No more naughty corner or punishment exercises or being sent out of class or raised voices.

What are your thoughts?

Who is saying you can’t say no to kids? It’s not some thing I’ve seen.

SemperIdem · 09/01/2025 14:46

Yanbu.

I think a generation of children are being brought up utterly unable to consider that other people’s wants and needs are also important, not merely their own. 9 year olds coming talking about things “giving them anxiety” - no, you feel nervous, which is a completely normal emotion and so on.

It isn’t how I parent my child but I see it all the time, in real life and posts on here. Children experiencing any negative emotion whatsoever must be avoided at all costs seems to be the goal. It is neither realistic nor conducive to them being resilient adults who can cope well with adult life.

Snoopdoggydog123 · 09/01/2025 14:46

As a primary teacher I would never say it out loud but all behaviour is communication is bullshit.

Sometimes the kids just inst very nice. And that's displayed in their behaviour.

If Eric slaps his wife we don't go ahh he's angry.

We say he's abusive.
Now I'm not saying we can't fox these kids. But we need ro address their wrong doings.
Not look around them to blame someone else for the reason they've made a shit choice.

Original poster

ABigBarofChocolate · 09/01/2025 14:46

Purpleturtle46 · 09/01/2025 13:54

I am a teacher with three school aged kids of my own and it's just a disaster! 'All behaviour is communication' is the mantra now. No punishments, very little you can do. All about inclusion in mainstream but no staffing to support it, so impossible for the class teacher to manage.

Parents don't support you but are very quick to complain. Kids scared and anxious to come to school with all the bad behaviour from other pupils making it an intimidating environment.

I, like a lot of teachers, want out. I can't see how it will go well in the future when kids grow up thinking they can do what they like with no consequences!

A number of teachers suddenly went off sick in December due to the behavior of certain children. I feel your pain.

OP posts:

Original poster

ABigBarofChocolate · 09/01/2025 14:49

Rocknrollstar · 09/01/2025 14:06

It’s not the schools that are too soft but the parents. It all starts at home. Children think the world revolves around them and parents are frightened to parent and say no. How are the teachers supposed to deal with these children?

Yes I agree with this to an extent. A lot of parents in my area are quick to defend their child rather than apologies for them and deal with their behaviour.

OP posts:

devilspawn · 09/01/2025 14:51

"So when the same 2 kids are physically hurting other people's kids or are giving others verbal abuse daily...how are they supposed to handle it?"

What did the parents say when they got them into the school to tell them?

Why aren't the teachers separating them from the rest of the class or excluding them from coming in at all, that's what they used to do when I was at school.

What age are these kids?

Original poster

ABigBarofChocolate · 09/01/2025 14:53

LittleRedRidingHoody · 09/01/2025 14:13

I feel like this. It also massively goes to parenting - I cannot believe the number of posts on MN about toddlers who don't want to put their coats on/take hours to get out of the house basically holding their parents hostage. These parents (and many I've met in real life) seem scared to 'make' their children do something for fear of scaring them for life. I'm not suggesting punishment or fear, just the general understanding that the parent is in charge and the child needs to do as their told.

DS is 5 and comes home upset some days because of misbehaviour that's not been challenged at all. Kids shoving/hitting each other seem to be forever labelled 'accidents' ~ I know their young but DS has known since he was 2 this behaviour is not okay, and suddenly I'm having to explain that some children are 'allowed' to behave like that, but I still don't want him pushing/hitting anyone!

I agree. I find it frustrating to read these kinds of posts.

For the bets part of 3 years my DC has been coming home telling me someone has said something or done something but the teacher didn't even tell them off. It's certainly frustrating.

OP posts:

Original poster

ABigBarofChocolate · 09/01/2025 14:55

HappyMamma2023 · 09/01/2025 14:39

Our little one isn't 2 yet but a lot of friends with older kids tell me similar things. I'm hoping by the time he's at school things will have improved! We've had a couple of tantrums and he has cried a couple of times when we've told him No, but nothing major to test us yet. Sometimes he has a cheeky laugh when we say No and it's so hard not to smile, but I dont want him to realise its funny because we'll be creating a future problem!
On the other hand, my niece 6 months younger 'refuses' to get into the car seat and my SIL said it can take 20 mins to strap her in after nursey 😬 it may be easy for me to say but I wouldn't be letting her think its an option.

Oh my days! Put the child in the car seat. End of. Too much pandering at times.

OP posts:

coxesorangepippin · 09/01/2025 14:56

Parents need to parent

Rather than giving flaky excuses as to why little Timmy can't behave himself

flapjackfairy · 09/01/2025 14:57

Snoopdoggydog123 · 09/01/2025 14:46

As a primary teacher I would never say it out loud but all behaviour is communication is bullshit.

Sometimes the kids just inst very nice. And that's displayed in their behaviour.

If Eric slaps his wife we don't go ahh he's angry.

We say he's abusive.
Now I'm not saying we can't fox these kids. But we need ro address their wrong doings.
Not look around them to blame someone else for the reason they've made a shit choice.

this is part if the problem as well. No.one dare challenge the bullshit we are fed these days.
Surely teachers ( and other professionals ) should be speaking up to say this is nonsense and not working. But to.do.so can result in people being vilified or even.losing their jobs. A small minority of people seem to decide the direction of a society and it is v hard to challenge that .

ComtesseDeSpair · 09/01/2025 14:58

I was speaking with a friend who has two young sons recently, and she hates the growing culture of permissive parenting and the idea that everything needs to be communicated gently and with positive reinforcement rather than with the word “no” and firm reprimands, which are now supposedly harmful to children’s developing emotions. And I really had to agree with her concerns about it having even wider consequences in our society in future: in just a few years’ time we’re going to end up with a whole lot of young men who have rarely heard the word “no” in their lives and who in some cases don’t think that it should ever be said to them or that anyone has the right to say it to them. And where that ends up is pretty obvious.

Original poster

ABigBarofChocolate · 09/01/2025 14:58

Magamaga · 09/01/2025 14:42

Who is saying you can’t say no to kids? It’s not some thing I’ve seen.

Show quote history

I've been told in various jobs that you try not to use the word No as it's flat out negative. You have to beat around the bush. Say things like " no thank you" instead.

OP posts:

Dweetfidilove · 09/01/2025 14:58

Purpleturtle46 · 09/01/2025 13:54

I am a teacher with three school aged kids of my own and it's just a disaster! 'All behaviour is communication' is the mantra now. No punishments, very little you can do. All about inclusion in mainstream but no staffing to support it, so impossible for the class teacher to manage.

Parents don't support you but are very quick to complain. Kids scared and anxious to come to school with all the bad behaviour from other pupils making it an intimidating environment.

I, like a lot of teachers, want out. I can't see how it will go well in the future when kids grow up thinking they can do what they like with no consequences!

It's the teachers that just want to teach and the children who just want to learn that I really feel bad for. I really appreciate the wonderful people teaching my child, because you couldn't pay me anything to stand in a classroom these days.

Some parents are so useless, I just want to put them all in a barrel and roll them down a bottomless hill 😔.

Oreyt · 09/01/2025 15:01

Kids at my dds school want to be put on a "plan."

They come in 3 days a week 10-2.
Don't wear uniform.
Stay in one room all day
Have smaller classes
Have a snooker table.

How can they get back into the mainstream school?

Why would they want to?

Kids try not to listen abd misbehaveto be sent there.

School just care that they are in school so it won't affect their attendance statistics.

I'm not talking about kids with adhd or autism either.

Painauraison · 09/01/2025 15:02

It drives me mad! My kids never get the weekly certificate and it upsets them. They are genuinely very hardworking and well behaved. They tell me about the behaviour that goes on and it sounds dreadful. To give an example, 1 child ripped out the school garden flowers then that week got the certificate because they said sorry. They tell me that children are rude and misbehave and then they get to go and play lego, but why don't I get a reward when I'm good? Children hurt others and nothing gets done. I am wondering if the teachers are allowed to tell parents they are misbehaving and causing problems because I went on a school trip and a child was ridiculous, yet on pick up teacher said to mum he was great today!! I was speechless!