To think we have gone wrong with kids as a nation?

[ABigBarofChocolate]

I've been working with kids for a long time and through the years, forms of "punishment" have changed so much.

You hear the whole " when I was at school we got the belt/ruler/??" I don't condone that all.

When I was at school, you got a punishment exercise (writing the same sentence 100 times) or you just didn't get any rewards at the end of the week because your merit chart wasn't full. Very badly behaved kids would either get sent to the HT office or be suspended with work to do.

My DCs school are having a hard time just now. You're basically not allowed to say No to kids these days. It's all positive reinforcement. Don't punish, distract. Etc.

So when the same 2 kids are physically hurting other people's kids or are giving others verbal abuse daily...how are they supposed to handle it?

Did we go wrong when we were told by education big wigs that we were no longer able to make a child feel bad for what they've done to another? No more naughty corner or punishment exercises or being sent out of class or raised voices.

What are your thoughts?

I think "all (well most) behaviour is communication" but that doesn't mean you let kids do whatever they want.

These kids are in age ranges of 9-12. It's happening in various classes. The parents say they don't know what to do with them and that's as far as it goes. Sent home for the rest of the day but back tomorrow. (hopefully with a new attitude) unlikely!

The world does revolve around young people though, it will be theirs when we are gone.

The whole problem with schools is that they are far too big and one size fits all and really old-fashioned. The world has changed and they have gone backwards in the last 30 years.

We have gone VERY wrong where schools are concerned since Michael Gove was let loose on them. What a fucking disaster academy schools almost all are.

Oh you're all on about primary by the sounds of it and even a 2 year old?

Wait until they are at secondary.

It's a terrifying thought isn't it.

According to some on MN they all might have SEND so you should just put up with it.

I don't know what the solution is, parenting classes?

What! That is ridiculous!

Research is increasingly telling us that the biggest impacting factors on young people’s behaviour is a safe environment and nurturing relationships, rather than punishment. I believe if these foundational to wellbeing factors were at the forefront of society, we would see a huge change. Punishment won’t change the behaviour of a struggling child, in fact it will potentially amplify it. We’re currently looking in the wrong direction.

Yeah it's completely unfair. It's all about inclusion but they forget to include the kids who actually do the work and deserve the praise. Too busy worshipping the kid who terrorises the place daily because he was nice for 5 minutes.

I agree. Excuses made every day on MN for badly behaved children. And complaints about any rules or sanctions the school has dared to enforce

Usual woke rubbish. Sigh.

This annoys me too because there is a lot of excusing poor manners and behaviour. We should have high expectations for all, that is what equality is meant to be.

😂

You can have safe and nurturing relationships with fair consequences too. It is not an either/or situation. If you look at why society functions more widely and why the vast majority follow the rules it is because they know there are consequences to their actions whether that is a formal consequence, internal consequence or social consequence.

The particular school I mentioned is a primary school but I was referring to education in general also. My other dc goes to secondary school and that has been just as bad in the past.

I personally believe if children have their needs met adequately in those areas, behaviour follows because they’re internally regulated and developing a solid moral foundation, which leads to the motivation to do the right thing. What you’re describing is fear based compliance. I also don’t think currently society functions particularly well, with so many broken systems.

I found this to be the case at primary school, but it was much better at secondary. If bad behaviour persists, the child is removed from the class.

Part of the problem is trying to put children who aren’t suited to a mainstream school, in a mainstream school though, due to lack of specialist settings so I do have some sympathy.

Disruptive kids tend to do badly. They'll fail, end up in Macdonalds... life will sort them out.

Obviously my views don't really 'mesh' with having kids, which is why I don't have any! :)

I remember as a kid my biggest concern was letting my parents down. We never got beat or a huge row but we did get the occasional short sharp smack on the top of the legs or backside though clothing usually if we were doing something dangerous. Now that would be considered abuse but my parents were not abusive at all however I did have a friend who's father would give the belt to as a delayed punishment i.e. her mum would tell him the bad thing she had done during the day and her father would decide on how many belts she would get and then he'd beat her with the belt. To me that is abuse and deeply harmful.

I am not advocating going back to smacking at all, I can't imagine hitting a child at all for any reason at all but it does seem that kids are so different these days. My nephew (5) was acting up at Christmas and was hitting his mum, gran, basically anyone in his way and his mum was trying to reason with him, telling him how he was hurting other people and he literally said to her" you can't do anything, you can't touch me". My friend who has a lovely gentle wee boy of three has been so careful to shield him from certain influences, really restricts his access to screens and is very gentle in her parenting now is at her wits end as he screams for access to her phone and kicks off all the time. Its so weird, like a change in the collective unconscious or something.

I think too many parents don’t know how to parent; often loving but no boundaries. Discipline doesn’t mean hitting, consequences for poor behaviour should be given such as removal of something they value and/or chores. Then there are parents who think it’s all up to the teachers - who they never support.
Parents can and should say no to children, life isn’t all yesses and children need resilience to cope with that.

I don't always get the balance right at home with my DD8 but there are some things she just knows not to test me with. Getting ready to go somewhere is one of them ( school, shopping etc). If she's in a huff and doesn't want to get ready she knows I will carry her to school as is (in pj's, hair a mess etc) we once got as far as walking out of the door before she begged to go get changed!

I think secondary schools are much too strict. With too many petty rules.
They are much, stricter than when I was at school in the 60s and 70s even though corporal punishment was used then. And much, much stricter than my children's school in the early 2000s which encouraged children to think for themselves and was always supportive.

We're hoping to move to a new area soon so we are holding off for now.