To think we have gone wrong with kids as a nation?

[ABigBarofChocolate]

I've been working with kids for a long time and through the years, forms of "punishment" have changed so much.

You hear the whole " when I was at school we got the belt/ruler/??" I don't condone that all.

When I was at school, you got a punishment exercise (writing the same sentence 100 times) or you just didn't get any rewards at the end of the week because your merit chart wasn't full. Very badly behaved kids would either get sent to the HT office or be suspended with work to do.

My DCs school are having a hard time just now. You're basically not allowed to say No to kids these days. It's all positive reinforcement. Don't punish, distract. Etc.

So when the same 2 kids are physically hurting other people's kids or are giving others verbal abuse daily...how are they supposed to handle it?

Did we go wrong when we were told by education big wigs that we were no longer able to make a child feel bad for what they've done to another? No more naughty corner or punishment exercises or being sent out of class or raised voices.

What are your thoughts?

I've been in schools like this. Give it a year, for behaviour to go absolutely to shit, then they'll realise it's bollocks and revert to a tighter form of discipline.
At which point, parents will kick off, but the school will have to hold their nerve.

Paul fucking Dix has a lot to answer for. Get back in the classroom!

You can't think past your own situation and see that this sometimes just isn't the case?

Not everyone would agree with this though, as in work shouldn't be seen as a punishment

https://my.chartered.college/research-hub/the-dark-side-of-rewards-and-punishments-in-the-classroom-part-ii/

This is a good article with plenty of references, there’s loads out there.

Oh my goodness - that’s absurd! It just encourages more and more bad behaviour.

Or "It's not something we are in the position to consider at the moment" 🙄

I do agree to an extent. However, I find that some parents don't take the time to explain to a child what they did was wrong or how they should behave in such situations. I don't punish my children other than the occasional removing of technology until they've done what has been asked, but I have taught them right from wrong. A lot of parents I know don't. They just react by shouting or swearing. No explanation.

"All behaviour is communication" just sounds so pat. What does it actually mean? Sounds like wanky educational theory speak to me.

Looking at recent days news stories of kids murdering other kids on buses etc it seems particularly hard to hear. Even if those are extreme cases.

Exactly, not to mention the stabbing of school teachers a few years ago.

I’m not particularly up to date with teacher training content, don’t they cover the bases such as Maslow’s hierarchy of needs? They certainly used to. I also think there should be more training for school staff on SEND, because as has been pointed out, beyond the basics, everyone’s needs are different.

I was kidding. Jeezo!

These attitudes start at home. I would be mortified if one of my children spoke and behaved at school like some of the children do. So parenting really needs some sort of blame. I work in a school and there are no punishments. You have to ask the child to reflect on their behaviour. Make the right choices. There is no punishment anymore. If my children do something wrong then there's a punishment, like a pp said about removing something they like. Nothing like that at school. It is too soft.

There's been educational theory for decades and decades you know, with people thinking they had it right each time. I'd say it's pretty likely that in 10, 20, 30, 40 years time the theories will have evolved. And we'll be thinking in 10, 20, 30, 40 years time "how right we are now! How wrong we were in 2025!"

Yes, and discipline and punishment are separate concepts. Expectations is an interesting one too, sometimes adults aren’t aware of what age appropriate or ability appropriate expectations should be.

I left my school in December, but one of my students was verbally and physically abusive towards staff and students (daily swearing being called a bitch, told to fuck of daily, kicked, punched, bitten etc. chairs thrown at us, tables flipped etc). This is secondary btw.
Every incident the parents were called, endless meetings, part time timetable etc. their response was "they aren't like this at home". Turns out the child was an only child, older parents, and they had zero expectations. If they asked the child to do something and they said no, they just left it. No pressure at home. But that also meant child had not been taught to manage their complex emotions in a safe environment, so instead we had to try and teach them that whilst managing another 25+ traumatised children. It was horrendous. As I left, parents were pushing for full days even though child could not manage (and the other students in the class needed that day without too).

9 years olds can suffer from anxiety- I certainly did. I’m glad we’re taking children’s mental health more seriously today.

I've worked in MH, mainly with offenders, for close to 30 years. The last 10 or so years I've worked with families with child protection or child in need involvement. I have seen hundreds of times the trajectory from neglect and abuse to difficult school behaviour, to dropping out, (to in some cases offending) and to the cycle starting again. I can very well see beyond my own situation and it's my work experience these past 30 years that has helped shaped my parenting.

We KNOW that those children always in trouble at school, the ones who make teachers lives very difficult, may very well be experiencing difficulties at home or in the community with issues such as neglect, bullying, abuse etc... Punishing these children is not the answer. It makes it worse.

I don't think you are being fair to your child. Teach him to shove/hit back! These children are going unpunished - if he hits back, they'll learn not to attack him.

I am well aware. Talking about mental health is very important. Medicalising everything is not a positive however.

Most 9 year olds, most adults, do not have anxiety - it is a medical condition which needs support.

Feeling temporarily anxious about a specific thing eg presentation at school/work is not a mental health issue, it is a completely normal emotion. Children seem to not be being taught this, alongside the greater awareness for mental health.

Blame the parents. Shouldn't be a teachers job to punish anyone - they should be teaching. If a child has bad behaviour in class in a sensible world the teacher need only tell the parent and the parent will punish their child accordingly and proportionately.