To think we have gone wrong with kids as a nation?

[ABigBarofChocolate]

I've been working with kids for a long time and through the years, forms of "punishment" have changed so much.

You hear the whole " when I was at school we got the belt/ruler/??" I don't condone that all.

When I was at school, you got a punishment exercise (writing the same sentence 100 times) or you just didn't get any rewards at the end of the week because your merit chart wasn't full. Very badly behaved kids would either get sent to the HT office or be suspended with work to do.

My DCs school are having a hard time just now. You're basically not allowed to say No to kids these days. It's all positive reinforcement. Don't punish, distract. Etc.

So when the same 2 kids are physically hurting other people's kids or are giving others verbal abuse daily...how are they supposed to handle it?

Did we go wrong when we were told by education big wigs that we were no longer able to make a child feel bad for what they've done to another? No more naughty corner or punishment exercises or being sent out of class or raised voices.

What are your thoughts?

I’m old, I had the cane once in my life at school. Guess what I never had the cane again because I behaved myself, so it certainly worked for me and the teachers.
As with most things the pendulum has swung too far and will at some stage swing back again.

Sadly, that is the attitude of a lot of kids these days " what are you going to do about it?" And there is literally nothing we can do. It's scary.

In what areas? I work with children from very middle class backgrounds. Lots of them have very poor manners and are disruptive. Their needs have been met their whole lives. Systems are breaking down in society, I agree.

I agree but I think it's a wider thing in society generally.

I wonder if there are several factors in this? Children are seen as much more equal to adults than they used to be; which isn't necessarily a bad thing in every way, but I think they are given too much choice. My Dc (adults now) know I bang on about children given choice for food - "what would you like to eat, sausages, pasta or nuggets?" When previously you got what you were given, no endless snacks, less visible fast food, fewer foods that were "kids food"; separate from what adults eat. Everyone is a consumer now; and the consumer gets to choose.

Kids should never be bored is the mantra now, give them an iPad, tv, phone etc to entertain them. Not just learn entertain themselves in their own heads. Or, perish the thought, read a book!

Some of it might also stem from reports a while ago saying how our kids had the highest levels of depression in the world and we need to make them happy with (misguided) ideas that you can do anything or be anything even a different sex.

And, for my generation, child of the seventies and eighties, guilt that my higher education was free, housing costs weren't astronomical etc. etc.

When I grew up society was far more patriarchal than it is now. Some terrible things happened to children then and adults ignored them, not just sexual abuse but not listening to them generally but I think the reaction has tipped the balance entirely the other way.

But, as I say, it's more complicated than just school behaviour.

Anecdotal experience is fine, however the bigger picture overall is that a lot of current research is concluding that punishment is not a helpful long term impacting factor on behaviour. It’s really interesting.

I applaud you. That's what I would do too lol

The problem with phrases like "have their needs met" @CherryBlossom321 is it's too wooly and vague for average people (including teachers) to understand and implement what they mean in practical terms.

True @hithere44

Kids today,eh 🙄

I think we can believe that middle class families are always meeting their children’s needs, but being middle class doesn’t mean that fully nurturing, healthy relationships are always what is happening away from view. I’ve worked with young people who were having terrible experiences at (their middle class) home which had never been flagged up elsewhere. Although overall, there is a stronger correlation between poverty and health inequality, abuse, and poor mental health.

I don't think it's the kids; it's society generally, and us as adults need to take responsibility to bring up future generations well. Not just feel guilt ridden.

It has recently come to light just how bad it's been. We were supposed to have already moved but it's been postponed.

And, generally speaking, children thrive through structure, which can include discipline and expectations of behaviour.

My you are asking a lot of questions. Do I spy a reporter? 😂

My children are 13 and 11. I can count on one hand the number of times they've been punished by me - i.e. hardly ever. It's not necessary. Yes, you need to set boundaries, be firm, explain rules etc.. but when a child does something 'wrong' there is always a reason which needs to be understood and they need to be supported to understand why they misbehaved and what they should have done/how they should have acted/reacted instead etc..

I really don't think more punishment is the answer. Both my children are v well behaved and their teachers would place them best behaved in the class (youngest) and one of the best behaved in the class (oldest). Lack of punishment has made them well behaved children, not the other way around.

The children who mess about and are aggressive in school are usually the ones with very difficult home lives. I cannot see how dishing out punishments will help. Trying to understand their lives at home and how we can support them would be more helpful. More punishment is not the answer when children are all still learning and reacting to what they are taught at home.

We know from research that difficult home lives incl. physical discipline at home and parental violence leads to more troublesome behaviour at school. So those kids need support.

I just read on a thread yesterday that someone can't get their 9yo to "agree" to turn their light off and go to sleep until 10.30, I'm baffled by that, parents need to take control sometimes.

As for "all behaviour is communication" I think that is a load of crap.