To agree with this article on flaking

[ByGreenBiscuit]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/jan/07/flaking-out-of-social-plans

specifically, agreeing with the bit that says flaking is so much more common now, and with the people that say flaking is something we should take more seriously and do less of, that we have all started fetishising introversion a bit too much (I say this as someone who does this a lot themselves) and also that it is self-destructive and erodes our friendships.

I guess this is a self limiting problem. How many friends do you need to loose before you gain self awareness?

I only have tolerance for one flakey friend. We only meet for coffee or round her house now. But she is a very long term friend so I will accommodate her.

But a new friend who flakes more than a few separate times? I just let them chase after me. Once everyone is prioritising themselves and flaking out that there's no real friendships left

You should have went ahead without them.

Hahaha. I do struggle with groups sometimes, especially if they are like this.

i also have hobbies like gardening and we bought our first puzzle at Christmas 😂

Yes this. The article is interesting and there is definitely a shift in people's sense of responsibility towards others and a commitment to other people. Lots of introspection isnt good. Social skills are something we need to use to keep, we are social animals and need real human interaction. Flakey people drive me mad!

I don't tolerate flakers and will cut them out if they do it too many times.

If you're a flaker - follow this simple rule - don't say yes in the first place. I won't mind. But I will mind you flaking close to the day.

The problem with the “self care” excuse is that the self care doesn’t seem to be working. If it was, we should all be happier, healthier and more resilient than previous generations who didn’t recognise or feel the need for it. Instead people claim to be more anxious/exhausted/burnt out than ever. And it can’t all be from assembling furniture or using self checkout machines 🙄

this is exactly it. I've suffered from anxiety and pretty much the best way to get over it is to do the thing that scares you, and then do it again, and then again. Whereas, conversely, if you avoid it, it becomes a huge thing in your head. Your brain thinks "well, you thought something bad might happen if you do X, so you didn't do it and nothing bad happened, therefore that PROVES not doing it is 'safe', you should keep not doing it."

Whereas if you do it, the first time you'll get "Weeelll okay nothing bad happened this time, but it still might the next time!" but you ignore that, and do it again, and your brain makes the link "Okay, we've done it twice perhaps it's not actually that bad, but I'm still cautious..." then after a few times it's "Actually nothing bad (or at least nothing we can't handle, has happened, so doing X is safe!"

If you're lucky, you might even get a "actually, nothing bad happened and I really enjoyed myself/in fact something good happened/I had a rush of endorphins/felt really proud of myself for doing it!" to help the "re-programming" along.

obviously it's not always 'that easy' (although the first few times you do it it isn't easy at all!), sometimes people with very severe anxiety will also need medication, therapy etc. - but most people can usually do something themselves to stop it before it becomes that bad.

One of my things was driving places I didn't know, alone. It was starting to affect my life, I missed a job interview because of it, etc.
So I tried to get practice driving new places with someone else in the car.
Then I went somewhere where it was completely optional, I had no time limits, etc, to make it as stress free as possible. Double checked I had the route downloaded, a map back up, water etc in the car, breakdown service details, etc.
Then I did it again, and again.
The first time I was terrified, didn't sleep at all the night before, couldn't eat before I got in the car, etc. But I did it. The second time I was still nervous. But it was fine. Now I jump in the car without thinking and drive anywhere.

Ah that’s great, glad you overcame your fear!

I actually have a similar one, but to the point where I’ve never learned to drive as I’m sure I will have an accident. Maybe I should take a leaf from your book - driving would be SO useful!

I started a thread on this last night so I won't repeat myself

Interesting to hear that phone calls release oxytocin. I really miss phone calls but even my closest friend won't do those now.

@ByGreenBiscuit Interesting also that you started this thread as a reformed flaker! I didn't think they changed but it sounds like you have changed a lot?

Many interesting points have come up on this thread and this is one.

I think this Trend for introspection covers fault finding in other people, probably part of everyone we don't like being a narcissist etc. I'm thinking of the one friend I have ditched due to her extreme flaking. I knew her about 4 years, and she lost about as many close friends in that time.

I didn't know all of the others so only have her side. They all sounded completely unhinged but with no solid examples. I expect at least half the story was that they were either annoyed with her behaviour, or were trying to engage her.

Another good point is how to manage this. I think quite easily and at the arrangement stage. If prone to flaking, only make plans last minute. Insist on buying own tickets so no resentment if you change your mind. Build in redundancy, have Some weekends free etc. Learn to delay gratification of self care of someone has made important plans to them.

Yes I probably have changed quite a bit. I think combination of knowing myself better, being able to say no and also not giving into fomo. I used to say yes to everything (another adhd trait) as it sounded great in the moment; then totally burn out and get sick. So after enough times of being burned I have gotten better. I think also prioritising a smaller group of friends helped - I spread myself too thinly, again through being a bit of a people pleaser and not realising that some of those people were not suited to me as friends.

I find flaky people tricky. My own MH issues means it takes a lot to build up to going out and meeting people... and to then be then let down at the last minute can make me feel like utter shit.

Once, it took all my spoons to get up and out to meet a friend. I was waiting for a about 30 minute, so I text her. Reply was "sorry, I am not coming". It took me almost an hour to get where we were meeting. She could have told me ages before that she was not coming.

I do cancel sometimes, but it it not habit, and I give as much notice as I can. If I think someone is already on the way, then I push myself to get there. I have never regretted going.

Oh, and also going on antidepressants helped. I have a condition called PMDD which is quite a serious psychological disorder bought on by hormones. It would regularly render me extremely anxious (to the point of ocd-level style obsessions) for half of every month (it is connected to your cycle). It was honestly awful and my cycles are irregular so hard to plan ahead for. I didn’t know it in my 20s but would vouch that the majority of flaking was done because I felt psychologically unfit and like I’d be terrible company (and I would have been - I have seen people being very uncomfy around that amount of anxiety). PMDD is common in women with adhd but very understudied. I only got a grip on it two years ago and I am 40.

That's so incredibly rude!

I had a friend flake on me last month by way of a text that said 'I'm not getting off the sofa today'.

Um...right? A sorry or an excuse is kind of traditional? I've stepped way back. I can't always be the one trying to bring people together only to have it thrown in my face with such a lack of grace thrown in to boot.

I agree @ByGreenBiscuit thar being an introvert is very much celebrated / expected / the norm in mn anyway. I wouldn’t go as far as fetishised but I do agree it’s a big trend.

Extroverts are seen as crass arseholes, stomping on other people’s needs with their big extrovert size 9s.

As for flakes, yes there are more about. I have sympathy for some flaking. But not all.

what do you mean?

If it's "being flaky is annoying, no shit sherlock" okay but tbh most of the things the writer cites as factors in the article (and people have noted on this thread) are very recent phenomena - the influence of Covid, fetishization of being an introvert/staying home, the increased importance of the individual v collective/collaborative society, increase in anxiety, WFH making it more normal to go days without leaving the house, being able to message someone to cancel rather than actually having to ring them and hear their disappointment, etc etc.

Even ignoring all that, and accepting that anecdata isn't proof, my personal experience has definitely been that people are way more flaky now than they were even 5 years ago.

So, although I agree there have been a lot of example of that sort of thing (Gen Z "inventing" "silent walking", was my favourite), I personally don't think this is one, and there has been a change in society.

I think a lot of it is a misunderstanding of what introversion actually is. It is not being socially awkward or shy. You can be the life and soul of a party... going round chatting to everyone. But you go home and need time to recharge before doing it again.
Introvert = needs time alone to recharge (battery is drained by being with people)
Extrovert = needs time with people to recharge (battery is drained by being alone).

In the right crowd, I am a chatty person, but am a total introvert. I know people who wont talk to anyone, and are extroverts.

Yes. This is so true. Self Care and Introverted. Don't say yes then.

I think my closest friends and I have sort of done this. We do meet up and do things, but no one gets hurt or annoyed if one of us has to cancel on the day because we've all done it at some point, but for different reasons.

I have 2 children with SEND and a demanding job
Friend 1 has MH issues which are well controlled most of the time, but unpredictable.
Friend 2 has the sort of job that means she can be called into work at short notice and an elderly parent who needs a lot of support.
Friend 3 has a condition that causes chronic pain which flares up from time to time

We have a lot of fun together and look forward to meeting up but there's no guilt or judgement if plans have to change or if messages aren't replied to the same day, because we all value the fact that the friendship is relatively 'low maintenance'.

I have this with a couple of friends and it is liberating. I think when you both give each other space for flexibility there is def less room for resentment. Also when you both have similar chances of flaking!

Nothing is ever going to convince me that is a normal or desirable way to human.

I’m an extrovert @XenoBitch. But I need time to recharge alone too. Everyone does. But I wouldn’t prioritise that time alone to recharge over letting friends down.

There's an active thread on here by someone whose friend has invited her to a (very long day) birthday celebration, and literally hundreds of people are saying 'absolutely not, put yourself first, I wouldn't cope with a full day being with other people, urgh' and such things. So much talk of recharging and self care.

It's honestly jaw dropping how easily people will hurt others just so they have more time to ... what, sit on the couch??

In that case, OP's friend is having to be there, and interact with everyone else. Being a guest is less exhausting than being a host.

Agree with similar maintenance friendships! The goodwill builds up and allows for the occasional flake. If it's all fairly balanced that's fine.