To agree with this article on flaking

[ByGreenBiscuit]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/jan/07/flaking-out-of-social-plans

specifically, agreeing with the bit that says flaking is so much more common now, and with the people that say flaking is something we should take more seriously and do less of, that we have all started fetishising introversion a bit too much (I say this as someone who does this a lot themselves) and also that it is self-destructive and erodes our friendships.

@BrightYellowDaffodil

What most people on this thread are saying is that they've had enough of people who use their (incorrect) definition of introversion as an excuse to behave like a selfish arsehole, and the "faux introversion" is held up as some kind of virtue.

Hear hear.

Brilliant post @Thepeopleversuswork

You have put it beautufully.

I get fed up with so called introverts bashing and stereotyping people who are comfortable socially as loud and insensitive extroverts.

I sometimes wonder if they aren't a little jealous.

I’m an introvert myself and definitely champion introversion. However I don’t champion flakiness, which is what the thread is about. Introversion seems to be a bit of an excuse or lauded as the reason people flake, which gives it a bad name when it is a neutral personality characteristic.

Extroverts get tired and stressed and anxious too. This seems to be conveniently overlooked by those who like to characterise them as “loud and insensitive” as @RampantIvy said.

I recognise this tendency to put introversion on a pedestal (while confusing it with other things) and I think it’s been going on a while now, certainly since before Covid. As an introvert myself, I’m glad that stigma around enjoying being alone and doing things alone is dying, but as others note, there is nothing inherently superior about introversion.

I’ve been agog at threads on mn in the past where someone would say they were struggling with work because their colleagues don’t speak to be met with a deluge of comments about how we don’t go to work to chit chat inanely all day and not everyone is a raging extrovert. Basically mocking the op for neediness. As I say, introvert here, but chats with colleagues have got me through my working life. Some of these threads were about people who wouldn’t even say hello!

I match the energy. It takes energy to pick an event, buy tickets, work out plans on how to get there and work food around it, make sure you have the money and something to wear AND have the energy to be present at the event, which often means not doing something else in the run up. If I do all that and someone cancels then they have wasted my work too. So flakey people can have invitations to things that don't take much energy from me but not the big stuff.

@RampantIvy

I get fed up with so called introverts bashing and stereotyping people who are comfortable socially as loud and insensitive extroverts.

I really dislike this too, there's a really nasty edge to it and I think a lot of it is jealousy/resentment of people who are able to cope by those who can't.

I guess I've avoided being a flake by simply opting out of most relationships beyond the most precious few! I also don't accept invitations to events I don't want to attend. I don't hate all people, but I also have limited capacity for fuss and bother, and people tend to make a lot of both. (Eye-roll if you want; it's still true.)

I am confident I won't outlive all my relationships, but if I do, so be it. None of us can know what the future holds, and I'd rather live the way I want to live now than try to maintain a lot of relationships I don't have the energy for on the off chance that I outlive the ones I truly want to prioritise. They wouldn't be very meaningful friendships, anyway, if I were only using them as insurance against a lonely future.

@Noerc

I’ve been agog at threads on mn in the past where someone would say they were struggling with work because their colleagues don’t speak to be met with a deluge of comments about how we don’t go to work to chit chat inanely all day and not everyone is a raging extrovert.

Yes. There was a thread on here recently where an OP had been invited to Sunday lunch by her boss and there were pages and pages of replies about what a disgraceful invasion of her privacy it was etc.

Very bizarre. I can see that not everyone wants to socialise with their boss and some people might find this uncomfortable. But the idea that it was offensive or intrusive to invite someone to a social event was very odd. And very unhealthy, I think. As if the default position should be for everyone to stay in their family lanes unless there is a very strong reason not to and that wanting to meet people makes you a "raging extrovert".

It's really not how I look at the world, and I'm a fairly introverted person. But a lot of people are genuinely terrified of social interaction.

Yes, saying hello is just basic human politeness.

my first job involved sitting next to a woman 15 years my senior who would ignore my hellos when I arrived and sat next to her (and we were sat on the team so needed to interact), and emailed to say she was leaving for the day.

that is not normal, and it’s not polite. I don’t care what her issues were, she made me deeply uncomfy and I left as a result.

@ThisIsSockward

I don't hate all people, but I also have limited capacity for fuss and bother, and people tend to make a lot of both. (Eye-roll if you want; it's still true.)

You see I totally disagree with this. There's no "fuss and bother" in my friendships. Nor is there any of the much-cited (and grotesquely overused) "drama".

I think if you see people as "fuss and bother" you might want to ask yourself if the creator of the fuss and bother is you.

I have had a few friends who have caused me unnecessary unhappiness / ‘drama’, but I realised after a while that this was a me-problem: not listening to myself and my feelings, and ignoring warning signs. Plus inviting drama because of an abusive childhood where adrenaline was a daily occurrence.

I have cut those people out / distanced myself, but they have been mostly replaced with nice, drama-free people instead of cutting myself off from people apart from a chosen few.

i agree that most people arent ‘fuss and bother’, and that this is a poster problem, not a them problem.

I have a friend who is notoriously flakey. The first time we ever arranged to meet up she blew me out. The thing is I have learned to accept her for who she is. She's just flakey and by accepting that I don't feel let down or disappointed. I just learned to do things together that I would still enjoy doing alone anyway so when she does flake out on me I'm never that disappointed because I still wanted to do the activity anyway. It's the best way because I still get to keep a friend and we do still get to do things together. Sometimes.

I’ve been agog at threads on mn in the past where someone would say they were struggling with work because their colleagues don’t speak to be met with a deluge of comments about how we don’t go to work to chit chat inanely all day and not everyone is a raging extrovert. Basically mocking the op for neediness.

I had the other side of this though, a colleague who wanted to chat ALL DAY. I was more than happy to have a bit of a chat about our weekend or work or whatever but I could not stand a wall of noise for 8 hours a day when I was trying to concentrate. She just could not understand anyone who didn’t chat constantly like she did and made absolutely no allowance for it. I took headphones in after a while!

@ByGreenBiscuit

You're right: there is bound to be friction and sometimes unhappiness in human relationships: this is the nature of the beast. And as you say sometimes you have to learn when the time is right to withdraw from certain people.

Seeing it as a fundamental issue with "people" in the generic sense is not healthy: nor is avoiding them a workable solution, or one which is likely to bring happiness.

Navigating this is part of life. Learning when the problem is a specific person and when that person is no longer good for you is an important life skill. Ideally people need to learn these skills in adolescence/young adulthood. So by the time they are fully fledged adults they should have the skills and the emotional radar to be able to put the right boundaries in place and manage them.

What I find troubling is the sheer number of people who seem to see opting out of all but the closest human relationships as a viable solution to this. That seems to me to be a a dangerous precedent.

People got very flaky. My friend texts are we still on to meet on x day. Im always reliable but I guess you wonder will they cancel

But chatting ALL DAY is different to those complaining that their colleagues don’t speak. There is quite a large gap between the two. Most people would find people chatting all day impossible to cope with; that doesn’t excuse silence and a refusal to engage which is just basic human manners, even if you don’t want to have friends at work.

Yes, this is a good point - I've noticed that people seem to check a lot more that things are still "on", which I think only adds to the idea that all plans are tentative.

I was searching for flaky friends and this thread came up. Hope it's not too old to resurrect? I'm on the verge of giving up on a mate. Only known her about 3 years and our kids get on great but she's flaked twice recently. Also I've been out with her before and we've seen people who she was meant to see that day but she's bailed on and is out with us. She also double books alot. It's getting frustrating. I dont like flaky people at all. It's rude.

@Sweetloveandcheese hi

I think I might have resurrected this thread, but I can't remember 😂 You mentioned this is a newish friend. I have just come back from dinner with a newish friend who flaked out a couple of times last year. However, she hasn't done it since, but I did find a polite way to make it clear I wasn't happy with it.

But it sounds like this lady is doing it to everyone? It's so difficult because the more it becomes a social norm, the harder it is to complain about it.

I guess I'm lucky I don't have loads of friends, but the ones I have don't cancel, and nor do I.