To agree with this article on flaking

[ByGreenBiscuit]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/jan/07/flaking-out-of-social-plans

specifically, agreeing with the bit that says flaking is so much more common now, and with the people that say flaking is something we should take more seriously and do less of, that we have all started fetishising introversion a bit too much (I say this as someone who does this a lot themselves) and also that it is self-destructive and erodes our friendships.

Yesss… so agree with all this, and hard relate to trying to be something you are not! It had serious health consequences for me and I had to quickly adjust to a quieter life in 30s but I’m glad it was forced in a way as otherwise I was just always doing what I felt someone of my age ‘should’ be doing!

I make sure people pay me on the day I book so the consequence of flaking sits with them. Altho I had a thing recently where someone flaked on the day and still hadn’t paid; and I had to chase them three times to pay me back. It was a work thing not a friends thing. Particularly rude given I had asked others to subsidise their place as they were more junior so they were paying a measly tenner for a full meal and drinks!

If that’s the case this person should just invite them over for a cup of tea!

This. Many years ago there was a mother at my daughter’s primary school who would always say, “yes how lovely, I’ll be there”. She never did turn up to anything socially so why bother saying yes to everything. Most peculiar ☺️

There does seem to be a conflation of

1. It's OK not to enjoy noise, crowds, overstimulation etc etc - which I agree with 100%, and
2. It's OK to let people down - which I completely disagree with

An honest decline of an invitation is always best but - to be fair to some flakers - there are people who make it very, very difficult to do this.

Yes, the credit card commitment seems a double edged sword for restaurants.

I was in Italy for NYE and booked a set meal at a restaurant. I was amazed not to be asked for cc details. Has flakiness not hit the culture there or would customers not accept restaurants asking for cc details? I found it interesting.

@Lentilweaver '. I have had my own health and energy issues. As indeed, do most people in their 50s. But I don't flake'

Great that you don't flake! I object to the assumption that most people have health and energy issues in their 50's though!

I have a friend who will turn up no matter what because she hates people cancelling eg I can only stay x time because my kids have this or that. She sits basically tapping her feet until it’s time to go. I say we could have done this when you’re not under pressure but no.

on the other side of it I don’t go out very often anymore just because I didn’t want to be that flake- money was a huge one, sick kids, most retail jobs I had literally gave me the roster the week before and I’d be working until 6 plus I live two hours away from everyone else so 40 minute drive to train station then hour and fifteen minutes on the train. Think weather, being exhausted facing into two hours there then back etc So I gave up going out. My fab friends were extremely flexible which I aim to be now with them and others and I’d very much recommend. Assuming people are being lazy is thinking very little of people who are supposed to be your friends.

I find flaking is probably more common with the rise of technology but I have reduced the risk of this by being very careful in who I surround myself with.

Friends who reveal themselves to be flakes I downgrade to acquaintances or simply refuse to do anything with them that requires a plan.

Is FOMO not a thing anymore?
I have young adult kids and I assumed that social media created more FOMO so people were more social.

Oh, I agree, but there aren't always straightforward dynamics.

For example, I have an old friend who lived abroad for some years in the group. She wants to meet with all her friends and doesn't particularly care where, what or how expensive. Another member has kids, so some limitations, but not a lot.

I get migraines, and I have the youngest baby in the group so have been going through it, and could do with a less crazy break (even half the activities suggested would be a decent get together by most people's standards!).

The whining friend? Came in big about being desperate to catch up with us, then flounced when I said I'd have difficulty with her (also very expensive) proposal. Oh, and the reason we're planning this is because of last time SHE FLAKED.

But I still a) want to see the remaining friends and b) think it's a really shitty way to treat the friend come back from abroad.

I think social media has also had a role in the decline of actual socialising. If you're scrolling through your Facebook feed reading updates from people you haven't seen since school or liking your old work colleagues photos on Instagram, these sort of micro connections can make you feel like you're socialising, even if you're not really.

Whereas in the days before social media, if you weren't actually face to face with someone, you weren't socialising with them. Calling someone on a landline was your substitute if you were unable to see them in person, which was something at least because you got to hear the other person's voice and usually you would just be having a conversation rather than both doing a million other things at the same time. But even that has largely gone by the wayside now in favour of WhatsApp.

Social media is a bit of a misnomer. It's antisocial media really.

Well, it should solve the problem - but she won't accept the solution, and did a "flouncing flake".

The other friends wouldn't plan a big itinerary (it would be more like you say - one or two things then see how it goes), and happy to make a more basic plan/have me duck out when I fancy it.

Needless to say the whining friend has lost plenty of friends before...

I agree with this. It’s just rude to agree to do something and then change your mind at the last minute because you don’t feel like it or something better came up. Dignifying it with a special name somehow makes people feel better about what is just inconsiderate behaviour.

These people are all adult enough to think ahead and say no in the beginning if they have a history of wanting to drop out.

(obviously cancelling with a proper unavoidable reason - eg actual illness, family problem etc is not the same).

There were a lot of articles about the devastating impact on restaurants of people not showing up for reservations at otherwise busy times not long after lockdown ended. Literally thousands of pounds a month in lost income from no-shows.

I expect a restaurant to keep a close eye on its bottom line. If a deposit means far fewer reservations are made to the point they are losing money, they would presumably drop that requirement pretty promptly. It’s a such a perilous sector, financially speaking, that keeping a policy that fails to make you money is a fast route to closure.

I’m perfectly happy to make a booking with deposits for up to 6 people. Beyond that, I would probably want people to send me their deposit so I could make the booking without worrying about being stung by flakey mates.

Maybe she is just too difficult to be friends with, if she won't adapt to other people's needs!

I do agree that jumping to the conclusion that people are lazy or don’t care about you is unfair and not very wise really. God your situation sounds exhausting! no wonder you couldn’t commit.

I’ve had serious caring responsibilities for people with terminal illnesses before and I have to say the friends that got annoyed with me during that period of ‘flakiness’ (ie not being able to go out because I was busy looking after sick people or having a brief moment of recovery) didn’t stay friends for long.

Yes, and phone calls release oxytocin whereas messages don’t. Which is why I think a lot of us are feeling isolated and sad - we think we are socialising but we are really not!

To be fair, she's an extreme example of the species, but I must say I've encountered quite a few other people who are a bit controlling about activities/time spent together:

• tried to plan holiday with friends - lots of different interests, 8/10 agreed we'd pick and choose spending time together. One couple wanted to agree in advance something the group would do together every day. Holiday never happened because they'd clearly be annoying.
• antenatal friend has a long list of requirements for venues for her daughter. Kept vetoing suggestions in the group until nothing happened and a small group of us agreed to meet separately.
• on a two week big family holiday, husband and I tried to arrange one night out just the two of us - MIL actually locked us out of the apartment to force us to come join her and insisted that had always been the plan.

I can think of a few friends/family who are very like this.

I definitely agree flakiness is a problem. But I think there's a corresponding problem of people who want every thing to be a Big Thing, and won't hear suggestions otherwise.

Leaving two options - turn it down (the better thing to do, or flake (not good but sometimes understandable).

That's a good point re introversion. I am 100% an introvert, but I am neither shy nor socially awkward. If I tell people I'm an introvert, they express disbelief.

And I also agree with the PP who made a comment about it being a backlash against extroversion dominating for so long. My one extrovert friend is so accustomed to social=fun/normal that she thinks anyone who isn't like this has something wrong with them. She is suffering, because without the compelled frivolity, she has nothing to do. She has spent her whole life socialising meaning she has no hobbies or ability to keep herself occupied.

I suspect the tide will turn again if we find it affects businesses, and the implicit shaming of introverts will resume (along the lines of the PP referencing 'Brenda' below ).

Re Brenda below (being pathetic and doing puzzles 🙄) I've noticed that if my time is occupied doing something that is considered worthwhile by others, then my time alone doing it is respected. However, if I spend a long time revelling in the joy of knitting, for example, my time alone is judged.

But the fact is, knitting does so much more for me than sitting with a group of people who probably don't have hobbies and gab over cups of tea as a way to whittle away their time (as is the case with a group I used to feel pressured to join). I develop new skills, end up with an actual product and have a sense of achievement. The others can dress their group up as friendship, but I honestly think it's just sustained by individuals who are very very bored.

I have no issues with people knitting all day. I have many solitary hobbies.
My issue is with people who say they want to meet- insist upon it even- amd then cancel when I have already left home.

People so flaky now. Im slow to suggest theatre etc then they dont pay. Coffee better now. Dentist takes deposits now due to no shows. Awful having chase up money too off people

MN is contradictory on flaking.

Some threads everyone is like ‘Cancel. Don’t go. Put yourself first’.

But when someone says friends have dropped out of plans they are like ‘Cut them bastards off they are not your friends!!’

Thats awful lentilweaver. I suit myself alot more now people are insincere.

Re Brenda below (being pathetic and doing puzzles 🙄) I've noticed that if my time is occupied doing something that is considered worthwhile by others, then my time alone doing it is respected. However, if I spend a long time revelling in the joy of knitting, for example, my time alone is judged.

If you go to a knit and natter type group so your knitting is accompanied by chat with others, it is also judged differently.

Same sort of idea that going to the cinema with a friend is more "worthy" than watching Netflix at home.