To agree with this article on flaking

[ByGreenBiscuit]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/jan/07/flaking-out-of-social-plans

specifically, agreeing with the bit that says flaking is so much more common now, and with the people that say flaking is something we should take more seriously and do less of, that we have all started fetishising introversion a bit too much (I say this as someone who does this a lot themselves) and also that it is self-destructive and erodes our friendships.

I don't agree with flaking and don't do it, but the elephant in the room is that a lot of the things people traditionally do in the quest of enjoyment are actually not very much fun and many of us realised this during the pandemic. Crowds, drunks and noise are not inherently pleasurable to experience. If you want your friends to join you for a celebration, maybe you need to work harder at finding a venue that is comfortable for them.

I’ve got a close friend who would be a lot closer if it wasn’t for the fact she is such a dreadful flake (in group settings she will instigate/suggest going to the pub the same evening then flake out half an hour before the group is due to meet). She never gives an honest reason, it’s always “my tummy hurts” or “oops I forgot I have a date with DH”

She’s good fun, funny, kind and caring. She’s just not at all reliable. It’s so frustrating. I’d love to become better friends with her but it’s just impossible being let down all the time.

That’s so horrible, I’m sorry. Absolutely callous.

I think people don’t know what to do around grief and feeling uncomfortable. However this culture of putting yourself first means they then cancel as a result instead of doing the right thing and being there even if it is sad or they don’t know what to say.

I see this all the time on mumsnet. Many mumsnetters wear this as a badge of honour and sneer at people who like to socialise with their workmates, like to put a cap on the number of friends they have, won't talk to other parents at the school gates, won't answer the phone or the door etc.

I see that 18% of posters who voted on this thread belong to this group.

I see nothing wrong with being introverted, but there is no need to use it as a get out card for treating other people badly or looking down your nose at people who are more extroverted.

I'd have gone ahead without him and everyone would probably have had a great time.

And let him know afterwards that he wasn't missed at all

The majority of my flaking nowadays is through stupid double booking. I don’t know how I manage to do it so often- I keep a digital diary, and it is so frustrating. It’s really not to do with the other people, and I’m always honest about my mistake. But I know it’s annoying and really want to find a way of improving this!

Very good shout. Take a pic and send it to him with the group cheering his birthday!

That's pretty subjective, though. I'm as happy to climb a mountain or go to the opera as a pub or a gig, but I don't think anyone should be trying to plan their birthday celebration around what is comfortable for Brenda, whose idea of a good time is doing jigsaws on her sofa wearing ear defenders in case the neighbour's gate squeaks, and for whom a coffee at Costa would be far too stressful.

I then down things in these types of places and instead try and steer things to peoples homes or my home or small dinners. I wouldn’t expect others to do this for me tho unless I explicitly told them why these types of events don’t work for me.

I agree. I arranged a lunch for my DHs big birthday and on the morning half the people dropped out one by one. I was so stressed and it was pretty hurtful.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Our idea of what fun is shifts with time (I used to love going clubbing until the early hours as a student but would now hate it) but also based on what we get used to. I don't think many things are inherently fun or not fun - it depends on your time of life, energy/health, who you're with, and so many other factors. There are certain things I would NEVER find fun (e.g. an adventure holiday) but others may love, and things I would find fun with certain friends and not others. I'm just wary of the trend towards thinking that anything involving going out isn't fun, because I know from first-hand experience how easy it is to shrink your own world and convince yourself that really you've always felt like that.

'I don't agree with flaking and don't do it, but the elephant in the room is that a lot of the things people traditionally do in the quest of enjoyment are actually not very much fun and many of us realised this during the pandemic. '

So then say no thank you upfront, don't say yes and then flake on the day. I have been invited to two events recently (baby shower and escape room respectively) that were absolutely not for me, so I said no thanks but have a great time.

" Unless it’s a significant birthday or wedding, I’m not quite sure why one would agree to gather in the first place. These days I’ll take any excuse to cancel last-minute and it feels like self-care.”

This quote in the article is inane. If I only went to weddings or big birthdays I might leave the house maybe once a year. People don't seem to understand that you have to put in the effort, first to make, and then maintain friends, by, you know, actually seeing them fairly frequently? Most people aren't going to invite people they only see once a year or less to their wedding or birthday - they are going to invite their actual friends. And the more people cancel and the organisers are left out of pocket, fewer people are going to keep hosting these 'big events' at all!

Also agree that people don't seem to see the cumulative effect. Yes one person dropping out might not make a huge difference to a larger group but if everyone does the same, then it's awful for the host. I've been surprised at a lot of threads on here where someone says they don't want to do something they've agreed to and people jump on to encourage them to cancel. The threads from the host's POV (there was a woman who had a big birthday a few months ago) are enlightening as well.

I had a friendship group of about 12 women before covid that has now been whittled down to 5. I'm sure one of the other 7 could write one of the many threads on here accusing us of 'Wendy'ing them or leaving them out or being cliquish - but we had enough of the absolute faff of choosing a date everyone could make, only for those who were the most awkward and whom we planned said perfect date around dropping out last minute. I'm obviously talking repeated flakiness, not just a one-off. Interestingly it's the members who do have serious illnesses or young kids that have been the ones to make the effort, so it's not "ableism" or whatever as per that article.

So, no we don't invite them to things anymore, and yes, we did create a new whatsapp group without them, and I'm sure that might hurt their feelings if they see photos on social media and realise they haven't been invited. But you reap what you sow.

Oh no, that's such a shame!

DH and I had a similar experience organising a Christmas party this year. Invited lots of people who we know from various different groups and several people cancelled on the day, didn't show at all or were really late. It felt excruciating and so stressful.

I organised a similar thing with my mat leave friends, who are one group, and there were no last minute bailouts. I think because everyone knows everyone they all felt more comfortable?

But actually, with the first party, I had been looking forward to seeing lots of friends from different places and having so many of particularly my friends not show felt really hurtful.

I go to gigs alone now precisely because I do find noise and chaos and busyness fun.

I don't ask anyone to come with because...well what's the point now? I'd rather just crack on myself and enjoy the things I want to.

I agree so much with the guy in the article who talked about the fetishisation of introversion (which the OP also mentioned).

I AM an introvert - for a long time when I was younger (90’s/early 00’s) I drove myself mad trying to be something I wasn’t because I thought if I didn’t go out partying, clubbing and on pub crawls I wouldn’t have any friends. It wasn’t really until my thirties that I made peace with the fact that I find big social events draining and stressful and I am happier living a quiet life.

Nowadays thought it feels like every five minutes online there’s some meme about “practicing self-care” (yuk) not liking people, preferring animals etc and it seems to almost be a badge of honour? I see it a lot on mumsnet with people being sneered at for e.g. wanting to make friends at work or among other mums at school or finding WFH lonely.

It all seems to push the idea that introverts are so much more interesting than those loud, obnoxious, needy extroverts. But neither personality-type is inherently superior and life would be dull if we were all the same. I have good friends who are extroverts whose company I really enjoy; hopefully they also enjoy mine.

I also think introversion is quite misunderstood - it doesn’t mean you’re shy or socially awkward (although I actually am!) and it doesn’t mean you don’t like people or company. That isn’t being an introvert - it’s being a misanthrope.

I am quite interested in evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, on how flaking affects the restaurant trade.

I know more and more places now ask for a credit card on booking in case of no shows, which I guess is good in one way because it makes you commit (or rather, the restaurant isn't out of pocket?)

But I tend to avoid booking those places if there are a few of us because I can't be sure everyone will turn up on the day, and then it's my card that would get the hit.

I agree - I think this is the backlash against extroversion that dominated for such a long time.

I assume it'll flatten out again but in the meantime, many people have become selfish dicks.

I found this quote from the article quite sad: “I love my friends and I do want to catch up with them – but I wish I could do so from the comfort of my own bed.”

Excellent post @BlackCatsForever

I agree. Surely the back and forth would be 'hey do you fancy going to bingo lingo this weekend Brenda?'
'No thanks Marge, not my cup of tea but how about a walk next weekend if the weather's good'?

Why do people have to make these things so unnecessarily fraught and complicated? If Brenda just says no (or says yes and flakes) why is it on Marge to try and figure out what she'd like to do?

I think this is fair enough tbh.

im part of a group where it’s been at risk of disbanding a couple of times due to large numbers flaking at last minute. However what I’ve liked is that if this happens, then the two people left out of 12 will still meet up and send a ‘wish you weee here’ message. It demonstrates commitment to the group (and makes people feel guilty). Attendance is now a lot better after this happened a few times as I think people realised it’s rare to find a committed group of people like this and we should nurture it!

Really sorry to hear that.

I think we need to find some way of bringing social shame back for these kinds of happenings! But how?!

Being covered in blood is no excuse, mop yourself up.

Sorry, quoted wrong post.

Jolly interesting to hear from a self confessed Flake, even a one-off Flake.
Seems to me that your friend likes to have a much busier time than you (or I) ever want, but you could avoid ever feeling a need to flake on her by saying whenever she proposes a day out, Lets just do the museum and one bar, or just the gym followed by brunch, or just the brunch on its own. And by only agreeing to go to Prague with her if you are pretty sure you will enjoy it - you won't if she keeps on at you to rush around all day.
Would that not solve the problem - perhaps I have missed something.