To think asking permission to take off a blazer is utterly ridiculous?

[ShowJumpSally]

My child's school has just moved into a new trust. Clearly it's one of those trusts as the latest email announces how children will be placed in internal exclusion or be suspended if they dare to wear a coat in the building or take their blazer off without asking permission.

Schools consistently moan about funding, there's a teaching retention crisis, teachers are overworked and leaving in their hoards, TAs are underpaid and in short supply, children's mental health is worse than ever, but somehow there's time and money to dish out internal exclusions if child gets hot and dares takes their blazer off without asking?

Aibu to say schools should try focussing their time, attention and money on the real issues instead of nonsense made up ones?
^

I don’t think it’s actually about the blazers, I think it’s about kids learning to follow the rules and creating an environment where teachers are in charge. We didn’t have to do this while I was in school but we didn’t wear blazers. Always had to have a school jumper with us though and put it on if asked to by a teacher.

I am glad that my school didn't have these stupid rules. My uniform consisted of a shirt, tie, jumper or cardigan and trousers or skirt. I was allowed to wear my coat between lessons. I was even allowed to leave my jumper at home in hot weather. It was honestly fine as we were still wearing a uniform. We got 60 minutes for lunch. There was enough time to eat and go to the toilet. Yes teachers were strict about using the toilet in the first lesson and in lessons following a break. However we would get 2 l1 hour lessons together. Teachers were more relaxed about using the toilet in the second lesson. I only went to school 20 years ago.

Probably one hand would go up and the teacher would say "fine, everyone can if they want to". Not a massive disruption.

Andrew old as in the man who stalks women (but never men) on Twitter when they disagree with anything he says? No thanks 😂

Exactly this. I'm a teacher, whose classroom is often very hot due to lack of ventilation, and I have a "you don't need to ask, just take it off" rule. Kids rarely do, I often have to remind them when they complain to me about being hot!

Honestly, it's one of the rules that bothers parents far more than kids tbh.

Some parts of Europe have dress codes, others do not. Uniforms and dress codes are illegal in my part of Europe.

It is a ridiculous rule OP, yanbu

Rules about being kind? How can you enforce that in any way? The schools that insist on what look like petty rules tend to have little bullying. I am thinking of Michaela, in a poor area of London. It has this sort of rule, plus silence in corridors and when lining up etc. It has excellent results and most of the students are happy - and particularly note that there is no bullying.

What - making cold children not wear a coat in winter and in summer making hot children wear a blazer improved performance, wow that's great, please share a link to the research.

It is in some circles for men.

No it isn't. It's about control. You can have perfectly good manners without that rule. I've been a teacher for 30 years and I hate this move towards rigidity. Making unnecessary rules about stupid things does not improve behaviour. It wastes teachers' time, alienates kids and makes them have less respect for the rules. What improves behaviour is making only good, necessary rules and focusing on upholding those.

I'd ditch school uniform altogether, personally. Most of the rest of Europe seem to manage perfectly well without it (and see ours as quaint). Anyway, it's an anachronism in an age where workplace attire is becoming more and more casual.

I was at grammar school in the 60s and it was like that. It wouldn't have occurred to us to wear a coat inside school and blazers didn't come off until "shirt sleeve order" was announced.

Rules like this are disgusting. Why should children respect school adults if they don’t respect them. If you’re hot/ cold you should be able to adjust your clothes

I haven't come across him stalking, but his points on discipline and exclusions are excellent. I don't do Twitter.
Try Greg Ashman instead, if you don't like Andrew Old.

A better question would be 'Is it in any way necessary or helpful to have to ask to take your blazer off?'. If not, why in the name of all that's holy would you make a rule about it?! Making up rules just for the sake of it is dimwitted and counterproductive.

Absolutely right.

Endless posts about how parents don’t agree with simple rules but completely seems to forget that schools are preparing kids for the real world. At some point in work there will be rules that will need to be abided by whether we like it or agree or not.

Endless studies also show that keeping a tight ship increases performance, attendance and respect for the school.

Also agree that hundreds of blazers left around the school isn’t okay either.

YABJ.

What is good manners about being uncomfortably hot?
When I get too hot, I absolutely cannot focus on anything at all, except cooling down somehow.

Right of wrong, the reason is because behaviour is out of control in schools and they are coming down hard. They need to do something as kids walk about with insane clothes on they take the mic basically. So a hard line needs to be taken in their opinion.

Yes it does and we are. Hth 😂

I think it’s awful especially in summer when teachers are swanning around in short sleeved light clothing, and the children are expected to wear uncomfortable school blazers. My son has terrible eczema and in the hot weather he would be in agony, but was always refused permission to take off his blazer or unbutton his top button, he would come home bleeding due to his skin flaring up. We’d occasionally get a school email to let us know the Head Teacher had decided the children could remove their blazer…I was never sure if he wanted a huge big thanks and a congratulations for being oh so generous when he sent out that email.
We want you to be independent, but you’re just not allowed to determine how warm you feel.

Perhaps all the adults thinking there is nothing unreasonable about it should start asking their managers for permission to take off a cardigan or blazer on a hot day at work.
I can just picture my boss’s face if we all did that during a meeting one day.

This rule is far from new though. Is behaviour any better in schools with strict blazer rules? Surely there would be concrete evidence by now if it did.

This is absurd. If I need to take a layer off, I need it off, and I won't appreciate anybody telling me I shouldn't be feeling hot/ cold. Basic body autonomy.

I went to pretty strict schools and they were all non uniform. Everyone who thinks this is teaching teens something useful ,that can't be taught in a better way, is simply wrong.

They aren’t disgusting and you have answered your own question. One day all these kids will get jobs and have numerous rules to abide by whether they like it or not.

The individual rules aren’t arbitrary and taken individually don’t account for the fact that it is an overall environment for prep in the real world.

Every single work place has rules. When to show up, what to wear, how to behave, what to do at work etc.

So anyone who doesn’t think that preparing kids for the real world doesn’t understand why the rules re there to begin with amd just don’t like being able to do what her they want to do. I guess if they don’t work or are unemployed it doesn’t matter then.

Should add that e.g. Safe Schools Alliance follow Old on Twitter - he has a lot to say on keeping kids safe in school.
But this was what I was thinking about:
https://andrewold.substack.com/p/from-the-archives-just-give-them?utm_source=publication-search
which explains about discipline decisions of the sort on here.

I think it is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard. We're trying to bring young people up to be independent functioning adults who can solve their own problems, yet not even trusting them to take their blazer off if they feel hot.